The Europan experience....
08-29-2009, 01:41 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 13
The Europan experience....
Ever wonder what it would be like to fly in Europe, well.... this is my perspective
!
I got furloughed from my company in the US and decided to jump all in and get my JAA ATPL with a B 737 type rating. I took me 6 months to accomplish the task, afterwards I was offered a job in Scandinavia.
Upon arrival, my first experience was their government! I was astounded by the enormous amount of bureaucrats they need over there! 1 in every 3 persons living in Norway works for the government! It was astonishing to witness the mundane mountains of paperwork it took to process even the smallest request. I used to think it was bad at home, but this has given me a completely different perspective and a new appreciation for the US.
Most things are poorly organized over there as well, everything from a simple thing like getting a phoneline set up to dealing with the tax authorities is dim-witted.
And... the cost of living... is staggering!! Gasoline is $9.00/gallon, a beer in a bar is $14.00 a pint, 38 percent of my salary goes to the government and I am paying $2000 in rent for a small basic apartment! I am making a gross salary of $100 000, which compares to making approx. $35 000 in the US after considering taxes and cost of living.
The climate is dreary and gray, which is reflected in the local populations attitude in general. Everyone complains about weather, the poor health care system, the substandard schools and preposterous taxes.
To wrap it up! The company is allright and the flying is tolerable. But I can't wait to go home again!
!I got furloughed from my company in the US and decided to jump all in and get my JAA ATPL with a B 737 type rating. I took me 6 months to accomplish the task, afterwards I was offered a job in Scandinavia.
Upon arrival, my first experience was their government! I was astounded by the enormous amount of bureaucrats they need over there! 1 in every 3 persons living in Norway works for the government! It was astonishing to witness the mundane mountains of paperwork it took to process even the smallest request. I used to think it was bad at home, but this has given me a completely different perspective and a new appreciation for the US.
Most things are poorly organized over there as well, everything from a simple thing like getting a phoneline set up to dealing with the tax authorities is dim-witted.
And... the cost of living... is staggering!! Gasoline is $9.00/gallon, a beer in a bar is $14.00 a pint, 38 percent of my salary goes to the government and I am paying $2000 in rent for a small basic apartment! I am making a gross salary of $100 000, which compares to making approx. $35 000 in the US after considering taxes and cost of living.
The climate is dreary and gray, which is reflected in the local populations attitude in general. Everyone complains about weather, the poor health care system, the substandard schools and preposterous taxes.
To wrap it up! The company is allright and the flying is tolerable. But I can't wait to go home again!
08-29-2009, 07:28 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: F/O- G-V/550
Posts: 1,163
Originally Posted by 73inEurope4now
Ever wonder what it would be like to fly in Europe, well.... this is my perspective!
I got furloughed from my company in the US and decided to jump all in and get my JAA ATPL with a B 737 type rating. I took me 6 months to accomplish the task, afterwards I was offered a job in Scandinavia.
Upon arrival, my first experience was their government! I was astounded by the enormous amount of bureaucrats they need over there! 1 in every 3 persons living in Norway works for the government! It was astonishing to witness the mundane mountains of paperwork it took to process even the smallest request. I used to think it was bad at home, but this has given me a completely different perspective and a new appreciation for the US.
Most things are poorly organized over there as well, everything from a simple thing like getting a phoneline set up to dealing with the tax authorities is dim-witted.
And... the cost of living... is staggering!! Gasoline is $9.00/gallon, a beer in a bar is $14.00 a pint, 38 percent of my salary goes to the government and I am paying $2000 in rent for a small basic apartment! I am making a gross salary of $100 000, which compares to making approx. $35 000 in the US after considering taxes and cost of living.
The climate is dreary and gray, which is reflected in the local populations attitude in general. Everyone complains about weather, the poor health care system, the substandard schools and preposterous taxes.
To wrap it up! The company is allright and the flying is tolerable. But I can't wait to go home again!
!I got furloughed from my company in the US and decided to jump all in and get my JAA ATPL with a B 737 type rating. I took me 6 months to accomplish the task, afterwards I was offered a job in Scandinavia.
Upon arrival, my first experience was their government! I was astounded by the enormous amount of bureaucrats they need over there! 1 in every 3 persons living in Norway works for the government! It was astonishing to witness the mundane mountains of paperwork it took to process even the smallest request. I used to think it was bad at home, but this has given me a completely different perspective and a new appreciation for the US.
Most things are poorly organized over there as well, everything from a simple thing like getting a phoneline set up to dealing with the tax authorities is dim-witted.
And... the cost of living... is staggering!! Gasoline is $9.00/gallon, a beer in a bar is $14.00 a pint, 38 percent of my salary goes to the government and I am paying $2000 in rent for a small basic apartment! I am making a gross salary of $100 000, which compares to making approx. $35 000 in the US after considering taxes and cost of living.
The climate is dreary and gray, which is reflected in the local populations attitude in general. Everyone complains about weather, the poor health care system, the substandard schools and preposterous taxes.
To wrap it up! The company is allright and the flying is tolerable. But I can't wait to go home again!
I guess it depends on what you make of it
Good thread
08-29-2009, 09:20 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
No place is perfect, just make the best of it
Maybe you should try it's neighbor to the east 
?
I'm guessing you are with Norwegian? There is no way in he!! I would put myself through JAA training unless I planned a minimum of five years in Europe. Anything less simply would not be worth the hassle and expense. Luckily all I had to do to get my JAA license was to tick a box
.
Like others have said, if you don't like it go back home. I have made the opposite move and am considering reversing it myself. I know what you mean about having a different appreciation for your home country once you leave it. Had it not been for the crappy weather and lack of good aviation jobs I probably never would have made the move myself.
I never lived in Norway (visited many times for skiing) but I can tell you that IMO there are a lot of things in the US that can be extremely frustrating too. You say things are poorly organized over there. There must be a huge difference how they do things in Norway compared to my home country. Before I moved to the US (for a third time in my life) I lived in the Caribbean and I expected things to be run a lot smoother than down in island life. Boy was I surprised! There has been so many times where I have dealt with government/authorities and getting conflicting answers. The right hand usually does not know what the left hand does.
I'm in no way saying things are perfect over in Euroland, far from. As you mentioned paperwork being one thing. But this goes for the US too, or any other country in this world for that matter. It would be great if one could take all the good things from a number of countries and make one good out of it. Since that is not possible all you can do is to accept it and make the best out of it while there.
What I can tell you is that, most likely, when you do move back to the US there are things that will frustrate the he!! out of you because you forgot how it's done compared to in Norway. It's not until you have experienced something different that you will pay attention to things back home you have never thought about before. Good and bad.
As far as cost of living you have to keep in mind you chose to move to one of (if not the) most expensive countries in the world. But, also remember that as a person paying taxes over there you will never have to worry about getting sick, paying for having your kids in kindergarten, and later on sending them off to college. In how many countries can you become a doctor or lawyer withoug having to pay a single dime in tuition? Or having your wife stay home for a year (18 months in Sweden, not sure about Norway) with 80% pay after giving birth to your son/daughter? Or how about a mandatory five weeks of vacation. Just trying to show there are good and bad things with every system.
I hope you don't take this post as a bash on the US but instead as an advice from someone who has experienced living in quite a few countries, considering my fairly young age.
To finish off, I bet you will miss them Norwegian girls when you do leave.
? I'm guessing you are with Norwegian? There is no way in he!! I would put myself through JAA training unless I planned a minimum of five years in Europe. Anything less simply would not be worth the hassle and expense. Luckily all I had to do to get my JAA license was to tick a box
.Like others have said, if you don't like it go back home. I have made the opposite move and am considering reversing it myself. I know what you mean about having a different appreciation for your home country once you leave it. Had it not been for the crappy weather and lack of good aviation jobs I probably never would have made the move myself.
I never lived in Norway (visited many times for skiing) but I can tell you that IMO there are a lot of things in the US that can be extremely frustrating too. You say things are poorly organized over there. There must be a huge difference how they do things in Norway compared to my home country. Before I moved to the US (for a third time in my life) I lived in the Caribbean and I expected things to be run a lot smoother than down in island life. Boy was I surprised! There has been so many times where I have dealt with government/authorities and getting conflicting answers. The right hand usually does not know what the left hand does.
I'm in no way saying things are perfect over in Euroland, far from. As you mentioned paperwork being one thing. But this goes for the US too, or any other country in this world for that matter. It would be great if one could take all the good things from a number of countries and make one good out of it. Since that is not possible all you can do is to accept it and make the best out of it while there.
What I can tell you is that, most likely, when you do move back to the US there are things that will frustrate the he!! out of you because you forgot how it's done compared to in Norway. It's not until you have experienced something different that you will pay attention to things back home you have never thought about before. Good and bad.
As far as cost of living you have to keep in mind you chose to move to one of (if not the) most expensive countries in the world. But, also remember that as a person paying taxes over there you will never have to worry about getting sick, paying for having your kids in kindergarten, and later on sending them off to college. In how many countries can you become a doctor or lawyer withoug having to pay a single dime in tuition? Or having your wife stay home for a year (18 months in Sweden, not sure about Norway) with 80% pay after giving birth to your son/daughter? Or how about a mandatory five weeks of vacation. Just trying to show there are good and bad things with every system.
I hope you don't take this post as a bash on the US but instead as an advice from someone who has experienced living in quite a few countries, considering my fairly young age.
To finish off, I bet you will miss them Norwegian girls when you do leave
.
08-29-2009, 09:46 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 190
i was in stockholm earlier this year for about a week. i heard housing was pretty cheap?
my only complaint there was the beer. i didn't see anything amber or dark. the liquor store was pretty funny. like a thousand different beers that were pretty much identical. lol. sold in singles.
to the matter of taxes, i'm only taking home around 66% of my rj pay right now. . . in the good ol US of A. would i pay another 5% to have free health care and schooling? need i even answer that? i could own one of those expensive homes if i didn't have a massive student loan.
my only complaint there was the beer. i didn't see anything amber or dark. the liquor store was pretty funny. like a thousand different beers that were pretty much identical. lol. sold in singles.
to the matter of taxes, i'm only taking home around 66% of my rj pay right now. . . in the good ol US of A. would i pay another 5% to have free health care and schooling? need i even answer that? i could own one of those expensive homes if i didn't have a massive student loan.
08-29-2009, 10:11 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by PurpleCRJ
my only complaint there was the beer. i didn't see anything amber or dark. the liquor store was pretty funny. like a thousand different beers that were pretty much identical. lol. sold in singles.
. But I do believe lighter brew is more popular. The only place to get hard liquor and wine in Sweden is in a monopoly run store controlled by the state, which is different from most of European countries where you can pick up alcohol in grocery stores just like in the US. http://www.systembolaget.se/Applikat...par/InEnglish/
There are actually organized bus tours going down to Denmark and Germany to pick up cheaper alcohol. The good part is that they'll let you drink from the age of 18. Never understood the logic behind "you can drive a car at 16, fight in a war at 18 but not buy a beer until you are 21"
. Very backwards thinking in my mind. As far as home prices in Stockholm it's been debated for quite some time now. There's been a huge run in home prices in general, but more so in Stockholm, for the last 10 years or so. Very similar to some areas in the US. The difference is that, unlike in the US, those prices have not really come down over the past year. In my opinion it's unavoidable that they soon will. A lot of young people have over extended themselves with a mortgage not correlating to their income. They will hurt badly once the interest rates will go up again, and they soon will. You can get a mortgage as low as 2% right now, but it's not possible to lock it in for more than a few months. No such thing as 30 year fixed rates over there.
Last edited by swedespeed; 08-29-2009 at 10:23 AM.
08-29-2009, 10:36 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 190
cool. i'll ask you where to find that micro-brew stuff if i go back. that monopoly run state controlled store is what i was talking about. isn't it weird, though?
i heard that the housing was somewhat controlled by the state as well until recently. is that true? if so, maybe that's part of the run on prices.
that age thing reminds me of a 2pac quote, "did you ever stop to think, i'm old enough to go to war, but i ain't old enough to drink." bet there aren't too many 2pac quotes on this forum to date?
i heard that the housing was somewhat controlled by the state as well until recently. is that true? if so, maybe that's part of the run on prices.
that age thing reminds me of a 2pac quote, "did you ever stop to think, i'm old enough to go to war, but i ain't old enough to drink." bet there aren't too many 2pac quotes on this forum to date?
08-29-2009, 10:47 AM
#9
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 93
Originally Posted by PurpleCRJ
i heard that the housing was somewhat controlled by the state as well until recently. is that true? if so, maybe that's part of the run on prices.
. But I guess that's all relative since we have some 1000+ years old cities. To be honest I haven't lived in Sweden since 2001 and I'm not keeping up with everything that's going on over there.
08-29-2009, 10:58 AM
#10
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by swedespeed
Not sure what they were talking about, but it may have been about the housing that was built in he 50's and 60's by the government. Not what I exactly call recently . But I guess that's all relative since we have some 1000+ years old cities.
To be honest I haven't lived in Sweden since 2001 and I'm not keeping up with everything that's going on over there.
. But I guess that's all relative since we have some 1000+ years old cities. To be honest I haven't lived in Sweden since 2001 and I'm not keeping up with everything that's going on over there.
Are you a native of Stockholm? I lived for a year in Vaxholm and went to school in Stockholm/ I remember my family talking about the taxes and the goods and others. I was VERY impressed with the educational system that I saw in place. I didn't have to deal with the health care system but I agree with you in that there are goods abd bads in every country I've ever lived or worked in - some worse than others.
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