The Europan experience....
08-30-2009, 10:36 PM
#21
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Joined APC: Aug 2009
Position: B737 FO
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by s10an
I am from Norway and came to the US and I have to point out that it is NOT any easier the other way around. There is the same staggering amount of paperwork when you move to the US. Immigration is a joke coming here. Try to get established in the US with no credit score or history. For the first 2 years my credit limit on a credit card was $300!!!
Im not sure why it would be so hard to set up a phoneline. Did they ask for what we have as SSN?
Cost of living is high. When I lived and worked there I made about $50,000 and paid 30% tax which according to you is equal to $17,500 over here. My QOL in Norway was a lot better than here, and I make $35K here. I did live in Oslo which has property prices like NYC.
What you forget to mention with taxes is that 1 month(july) is tax free, and one month is 1/2 tax(dec.) As well as 5 weeks paid vacation. Government paid retirement.(No gambling with a 401k) Free school/university with government paying you grants every year. Free Healthcare. Public transportation that is light years ahead of US.(which doesnt say much)
Norway is not a place to go and make a quick buck like contract work in other parts of the world, but rather an excellent place to live long term. That is why it has ranked among the best places to live in the world.
I'm not trying to create a "mine is better than yours" competition. All experiences are subjective.
You are the first person that has complained about the locals attitude. Go out and drink a beer. After all, the girls are a lot prettier in Norway
May I ask what city you live in and what company you work for?
I am just know planning to do the JAA conversion so maybe I can take your $100K job and you can take my $35K job.
How and where did you do the JAA conversion?
Im not sure why it would be so hard to set up a phoneline. Did they ask for what we have as SSN?
Cost of living is high. When I lived and worked there I made about $50,000 and paid 30% tax which according to you is equal to $17,500 over here. My QOL in Norway was a lot better than here, and I make $35K here. I did live in Oslo which has property prices like NYC.
What you forget to mention with taxes is that 1 month(july) is tax free, and one month is 1/2 tax(dec.) As well as 5 weeks paid vacation. Government paid retirement.(No gambling with a 401k) Free school/university with government paying you grants every year. Free Healthcare. Public transportation that is light years ahead of US.(which doesnt say much)
Norway is not a place to go and make a quick buck like contract work in other parts of the world, but rather an excellent place to live long term. That is why it has ranked among the best places to live in the world.
I'm not trying to create a "mine is better than yours" competition. All experiences are subjective.
You are the first person that has complained about the locals attitude. Go out and drink a beer. After all, the girls are a lot prettier in Norway
May I ask what city you live in and what company you work for?
I am just know planning to do the JAA conversion so maybe I can take your $100K job and you can take my $35K job.
How and where did you do the JAA conversion?
Taxes in Norway are extremely high, (so health care is not free!) July is not tax free by the way! July's paycheck is one of the two; "vacation money" or your salary for the month, whichever is higher! The "vacation money" as the tax authorities calls it, is based on your gross salary and prepaid by yourself each month you work throughout the year. Then in July you get that money back, "taxfree".
However, you forfeit your salary for that month!
As far as "gambling with your 401k, at least you can allocate it's funds yourself, and have nobody to blame but yourself if it goes south. The Norwegian government lost $120 BILLION
of taxpayers money last year, through "poor investments"! (Thats a lot of money for a country with only 4 mill. people) But, if you'd rather have these folks manage your money. Then, that is of course your choice! The conversion to a JAA license requires; 14 written exams, a Skill Test and a Base Check, (6 t/o and landings in the actual plane if you are getting a type)
There are several ways to do this, the theoretical part is the toughest! You can do an online study through an approved school and then go to Europe and take the exams. There are a few schools in the US where you can take the type rating, Pan Am flight Academy is one of them. As far as the cost, I found through my reserch that it cost's less doing the bulk of the training in the US. The skill test must be done in Europe with a Scandinavian Examiner, (if you are getting a scandinavian license). Total cost, type included, was around $40 000, that is probably what you should expect to spend!
I am not trying to be discouraging, but be prepared to study 4-6 hrs a day for 5 months straight for the exams, The type rating can be completed in 4-6 weeks. It is a fairly big project that requires a good dose of patience!
Then, the authorities will do their part to add to the challenge!
Good luck!
08-30-2009, 11:28 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by saviboy
HAVE YOU TAKEN A GOOD LOOK AT THE SCANDINAVIAN WOMEN!!!!????
that reason alone is enough to stay forever.
on another topic, its true that in europe you ll pay more taxes but you cant even start comparing the european health care systems and the US system.
that reason alone is enough to stay forever.
on another topic, its true that in europe you ll pay more taxes but you cant even start comparing the european health care systems and the US system.
As far as "European health care system" - you're right, you can't even compare it because it usually sucks...
08-31-2009, 01:31 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by s10an
I am from Norway and came to the US and I have to point out that it is NOT any easier the other way around. There is the same staggering amount of paperwork when you move to the US. Immigration is a joke coming here. Try to get established in the US with no credit score or history. For the first 2 years my credit limit on a credit card was $300!!!
Originally Posted by s10an
Im not sure why it would be so hard to set up a phoneline. Did they ask for what we have as SSN?
Originally Posted by s10an
Cost of living is high. When I lived and worked there I made about $50,000 and paid 30% tax which according to you is equal to $17,500 over here. My QOL in Norway was a lot better than here, and I make $35K here. I did live in Oslo which has property prices like NYC.
What you forget to mention with taxes is that 1 month(july) is tax free, and one month is 1/2 tax(dec.) As well as 5 weeks paid vacation. Government paid retirement.(No gambling with a 401k) Free school/university with government paying you grants every year. Free Healthcare. Public transportation that is light years ahead of US.(which doesnt say much)
What you forget to mention with taxes is that 1 month(july) is tax free, and one month is 1/2 tax(dec.) As well as 5 weeks paid vacation. Government paid retirement.(No gambling with a 401k) Free school/university with government paying you grants every year. Free Healthcare. Public transportation that is light years ahead of US.(which doesnt say much)
"Government retirement" or a pension is basically a different version of our social security benefits. Highly inefficient and a waste of taxpayers money... It's not a "gift" from the government but rather part of your taxes that the government takes away from you and then invests in "safe" (aka low-yield) bonds, etc. That 'pension' would probably have been at least twice the size had they invested it in stocks; at least a portion of it. Yes, even with the stock markets moving up and down the stock market always wins over savings accounts when it comes to long term investments, and that's what we're talking about here.
"Free healthcare" is not free, it's paid by you via high taxes. Additionally, it's extremely bureaucratic - my sister works part time in a Drammen hospital and also in an Oslo clinic; many years ago she was a nurse in Dallas, TX. In her own words "the quality of health care here and in the US is actually about the same. We simply pay much more (through taxes) to wait longer." Neither country has the perfect solution but please stop calling it "free" health care because it is not.
Schools, like you said they're mainly free but personally I think the quality of higher education is better here. There's a reason why thousands of students from all over the world flock to the US universities every year.
Vacation? I won't argue with you on this one; I do wish we had longer vacations in the US. I think it has to do with the puritanical beginnings of this nation. Whereas the Europeans work to live, the Americans live to work. Many years ago I saw a pan-European study asking people if they'd prefer more pay or more time off? Over 90% of people from all over Europe chose more time off. I bet you the numbers would've been reversed here in a similar survey.
Originally Posted by s10an
Norway is not a place to go and make a quick buck like contract work in other parts of the world, but rather an excellent place to live long term. That is why it has ranked among the best places to live in the world.
Originally Posted by s10an
I'm not trying to create a "mine is better than yours" competition. All experiences are subjective.
We pilots are modern versions of Vikings; we travel for a living and very often the job search takes us all over the world. Oh, and nowadays we don't rape and pillage; we simply take our pay checks, explore and take some pictures... LOL
Originally Posted by s10an
You are the first person that has complained about the locals attitude. Go out and drink a beer. After all, the girls are a lot prettier in Norway
Many moons ago I read a story on what it's like to move to a foreign country. The author said we all go through 4 stages of being an immigrant and how long we stayed in a specific phase depended on whether we had long term plans for living in that country or not.
Stage_
1) Everything seems to be better in the new country, orange juice tastes better, the sun is brighter, etc., etc.
2) We start seeing things we don't like but overall we still like it...
3) We hate everything about the new country and feel that things are better back home. In fact, it's better and it's free or at least much cheaper!
4) We've accepted all the differences and try to draw the best from both worlds.
I think that maybe you might be somewhere between phase two and three whereas I might've moved on to the last stage? I might be all wrong, but that's just my personal observation. Enjoyed the discussion with a fellow scandihoovian...
08-31-2009, 01:41 AM
#24
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
I wish our APC gurus would create a world airlines database where we could compare the pay and benefits (with a built in currency calculator)...
In other words, to expand this to most of Europe, Asia, etc.
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...rnational.html
In other words, to expand this to most of Europe, Asia, etc.
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...rnational.html
08-31-2009, 10:22 AM
#25
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: 777ER 747
Posts: 84
for mr 73inEurope4now
I lived in Oslo Norway for more then 23 yrs. I cant tell you how much I hate it.
all norwegian are so lazy people. They have this horrible system that makes you abuse the system. They have to have 4 vacation a yr to pass the miserable life they live and not to talk about the WX please.
Brother my heart is with you, hold one for a few yrs and come back home. My mom lives in Oslo, and I haven't been there for over a 3 yrs, cant stand the stupidity of the norwegian.And they call the American for being fat and lazy please. Norway is a fantasy world I am so glad that I am american now. Good luck brother
all norwegian are so lazy people. They have this horrible system that makes you abuse the system. They have to have 4 vacation a yr to pass the miserable life they live and not to talk about the WX please.
Brother my heart is with you, hold one for a few yrs and come back home. My mom lives in Oslo, and I haven't been there for over a 3 yrs, cant stand the stupidity of the norwegian.And they call the American for being fat and lazy please. Norway is a fantasy world I am so glad that I am american now. Good luck brother
08-31-2009, 10:43 AM
#26
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
True, but there are plenty of ugly ones too... Ugliness does not discriminate!
As far as "European health care system" - you're right, you can't even compare it because it usually sucks...
As far as "European health care system" - you're right, you can't even compare it because it usually sucks...
WHO | WHO Statistical Information System (WHOSIS)
I have used a comparison tool:
norway compared to usa:
infantile mortality rate ( per 1000 births): N: 3 USA 7
life expectancy: N 80 U 78
maternity mortality ratio (per 1000) N 7 USA 11
there are many more comparison tools but you can try yourself and you ll see that there wont be a huge difference but the US is constantly behind.
...somehow I think this conversation is going nowhere....
08-31-2009, 10:45 AM
#27
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Joined APC: Jan 2006
Posts: 81
Originally Posted by ⌐ AV8OR WANNABE
I wish our APC gurus would create a world airlines database where we could compare the pay and benefits (with a built in currency calculator)...
In other words, to expand this to most of Europe, Asia, etc.
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...rnational.html
In other words, to expand this to most of Europe, Asia, etc.
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/a...rnational.html
08-31-2009, 10:59 AM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2007
Position: B757F CA
Posts: 408
Originally Posted by 73inEurope4now
Ever wonder what it would be like to fly in Europe, well.... this is my perspective!
I got furloughed from my company in the US and decided to jump all in and get my JAA ATPL with a B 737 type rating. I took me 6 months to accomplish the task, afterwards I was offered a job in Scandinavia.
Upon arrival, my first experience was their government! I was astounded by the enormous amount of bureaucrats they need over there! 1 in every 3 persons living in Norway works for the government! It was astonishing to witness the mundane mountains of paperwork it took to process even the smallest request. I used to think it was bad at home, but this has given me a completely different perspective and a new appreciation for the US.
Most things are poorly organized over there as well, everything from a simple thing like getting a phoneline set up to dealing with the tax authorities is dim-witted.
And... the cost of living... is staggering!! Gasoline is $9.00/gallon, a beer in a bar is $14.00 a pint, 38 percent of my salary goes to the government and I am paying $2000 in rent for a small basic apartment! I am making a gross salary of $100 000, which compares to making approx. $35 000 in the US after considering taxes and cost of living.
The climate is dreary and gray, which is reflected in the local populations attitude in general. Everyone complains about weather, the poor health care system, the substandard schools and preposterous taxes.
To wrap it up! The company is allright and the flying is tolerable. But I can't wait to go home again!
!I got furloughed from my company in the US and decided to jump all in and get my JAA ATPL with a B 737 type rating. I took me 6 months to accomplish the task, afterwards I was offered a job in Scandinavia.
Upon arrival, my first experience was their government! I was astounded by the enormous amount of bureaucrats they need over there! 1 in every 3 persons living in Norway works for the government! It was astonishing to witness the mundane mountains of paperwork it took to process even the smallest request. I used to think it was bad at home, but this has given me a completely different perspective and a new appreciation for the US.
Most things are poorly organized over there as well, everything from a simple thing like getting a phoneline set up to dealing with the tax authorities is dim-witted.
And... the cost of living... is staggering!! Gasoline is $9.00/gallon, a beer in a bar is $14.00 a pint, 38 percent of my salary goes to the government and I am paying $2000 in rent for a small basic apartment! I am making a gross salary of $100 000, which compares to making approx. $35 000 in the US after considering taxes and cost of living.
The climate is dreary and gray, which is reflected in the local populations attitude in general. Everyone complains about weather, the poor health care system, the substandard schools and preposterous taxes.
To wrap it up! The company is allright and the flying is tolerable. But I can't wait to go home again!
In the meantime, try and do all of the rest of us open-minded Americans a favor, and not perpetuate the obnoxious, intolerant, and ethno-centric stereotype of the USA.
08-31-2009, 03:28 PM
#29
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by taymor1234
I lived in Oslo Norway for more then 23 yrs. I cant tell you how much I hate it.
all norwegian are so lazy people. They have this horrible system that makes you abuse the system...
all norwegian are so lazy people. They have this horrible system that makes you abuse the system...
Create a system people can abuse and guess what, people will abuse it. It's the human nature...
Let's keep comparing the living conditions here and there for those who might be interested in becoming an expat, but let's do it without vilifying the host nation's citizens (and yes, I know you used to and maybe still are a citizen of Norway).
08-31-2009, 03:39 PM
#30
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Joined APC: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,333
Originally Posted by IQuitEagle
... As others have said, if you don't like it, go home...
...In the meantime, try and do all of the rest of us open-minded Americans a favor, and not perpetuate the obnoxious, intolerant, and ethno-centric stereotype of the USA.
...In the meantime, try and do all of the rest of us open-minded Americans a favor, and not perpetuate the obnoxious, intolerant, and ethno-centric stereotype of the USA.
What was it you said about perpetuating "the obnoxious, intolerant, and ethno-centric stereotype of the USA"?
If he lives and works there legally, pays his taxes like the rest of his coworkers do I see no reason why he shouldn't be able to speak up whether we agree or disagree with his message...
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