Skyone

It's not TPs job to educate you, he has given you the data to research. Simple enough.

What he is referring to, is the unions and airlines are looking for government intervention in dealing with this issue. Ain't going to happen. As I have said before the US airlines have been encroaching on others' territories for decades. How about when start ups begin in the US, cities give tax relief and fee waivers to obtain the cheaper service? Somehow the big boys compete.

With 100s of airlines that have failed since deregulation, one would have thought the government would have done something about that. Look up what was supposed to have been compensation for airline employees being without jobs...in the original language of deregulation. The gov just turns it's head and says it's good for the consumer.

With all this I am saying, the route of government being the final arbitrator of this, is a failed route. If the unions and airlines are to be successful in this perceived threat, they MUST compete whether it's a level playing field or not. And they can. Most now have the financial ability to truly up their game.

The European airlines have to compete with the Ryan Air and EasyJet juggernaughts, of penny fares , etc. The legacies that have adapted are doing quite well. I have DH on BA and Lufthansa and their short haul mainline is so much superior to DAL, AA, USA, and others. They had to learn to compete. Service vs backpacking fares.

Finally, the major advantage US airlines have is their Frequent Flyer programs. Buy a box of cereal on their credit card and you get FF mileage. Do not underestimate that deal. Is that fair to the start ups or foreign airlines (unless they are part of the alliances)?

It's like Boeing vs Airbus. Boeing complains about gov assistance for Airbus, and Airbus complains about massive defense contracts Boeing receives. Who's got the level playing field.

All I am trying to impart is that looking for the government to step in is a waste of resources. The legislators will see only better service and equal or cheaper fares for their constituents.

Typhoonpilot

ALPA seems to want to blame it all on one thing, Flags of Convenience. They fail to look deeply at the history of shipping in America and the world. They fail to look at the changing world marketplace, new technology, etc. They fail to mention the monopolistic practices in shipping that were just waiting for someone to come bust them up. They fail to mention the antiquated legislation that made it difficult for the U.S. shipping industry to effectively compete.

Oh and I should have said conference, not commission in my previous post.

Here is some 34 pages of reading on the subject for you:

http://scholarlycommons.law.northwes...&context=njilb



TP

atpcliff

For emirates, and other foreign carriers, for them to expand very much, they will need US pilots.

And Boeing DOES get government assistance...a lot of out...just like most large US corporations.

globalexpress

Thanks for the link, but yesterday I bought, "The Abandoned Ocean, A History of United States Maritime Policy" for 6 bucks on Amazon. Should come tomorrow. I'm going to start it after I finish my current read.

Regardless, if I am to understand the points that you and Skyone are trying to make, ALPA, and the US airline industry should be FOR flags of convenience, 8th/9th freedom/cabotage rights because any sort of legislation limiting such flights is anti-competitive, monopolistic, and failing to understand changing times? Is that correct? Anyone should be able to plant a flag in any country, get their pilots from wherever they want, and fly anywhere they want, no?

Have I got a business proposition for the two of you! I bet you guys didn't know this, but I went to high school with Dennis Rodman. We're buds. Anyway, he's got an in with Kim Jong-un. You know, that pudgy little cherub from North Korea? Anyway, I'm going to start an airline! Guess where I'm planting my flag? Pyongyang of course! Just a hop, skip, and a jump from 1 billion Chinese people itchin' to join the middle class, spread their wings, and see the world! I'm going to make Pyongyang a one-stop gateway to anywhere and everywhere on the planet.

I'm going to use DPRK air force pilots in the cockpit. They NEVER complain, work for practically nothing, and follow orders. Flight Attendants? Easy. I'll just find the hottest, most subservient, and youngest the DPRK has to offer, and of course also pay them practically nothing, too. You know THEY won't complain. ...or.....well....you know. Below the wing? Kim has PLENTY of unskilled labor in some concentration......eh....I mean "career retraining" camps that will work for free as "ramp interns!" Kim said all I have to do is give them "Dear Leader" haircuts, feed them something, and they'll be happy.

Now, Pyongyang has a bit of uh.....dotted credit history let's say. But no problem! I'm going all Boeing. I'm just going to give the Import-Export Bank a jingle back in the US and I'll get all the cash I need to buy me some jets....and it's cheap money too! Cheaper money that those bloated US airlines can even get! God Bless America.....er.....I mean....God Bless The Dear Leader! Which is kind of like asking the Dear Leader to bless himself.....am I right? Man those jets are going to look good with the Dear Leader's portrait on every tail!

Now I'm going to need some jet fuel, spare parts, stuff like that. Kim's got that figured out. Surprisingly he has lots of new, crisp, $100 dollar bills that he..... well......"obtained" and he's going to loan them to me to get operations going. And if I have a rough start, well, plenty more where those came from! Man, I've got this all figured out.

This plan can't fail. I figure between getting cheap loans for my airplanes, an unlimited supply of the Dear Leader's stash, getting labor for practically nothing, avoiding silly EU and US rules like FAR 117, getting around those crazy labor unions, my costs will probably be half of the Deltas, British Airways, Air Chinas, and Lufthansas of the world. What a bunch of maroons.

I sort of feel bad for what's going to happen to my competitors. Skyone says that field is always uneven, and all those carriers are just going to have to learn to compete, so I guess that's the way it goes. After all, Delta, American, and United, just had a whole solid year of profits, so they're good! But I'm a nice guy. As these airlines start to fall like dominoes, I'll hire their pilots at least. Of course, they're going to have to move to Pyongyang. That's not so bad, right? You guys like bad haircuts, statues, the color grey, and military parades, right? I hear Kim has just finished the Ryugyong hotel, and she's a beaut! Plenty of room for all my pilots to live!

So are you guys in?

Typhoonpilot

Nowhere have I ever advocated 8th and 9th freedoms. I do believe 5th and 7th should be pursued however. The reason being, that is the only way that U.S. carriers are going to be able to capture significant revenue from the changing world travel patterns.



TP

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