Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

Welcome to Airline Pilot Forums - Connect and get the inside scoop on Airline Companies

If this is your first visit, be sure to check out the FAQ. Join our community today and start interacting with existing members. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free.


User Tag List

Post Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 06-29-2020, 01:26 PM   #51  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Blackhawk's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,854
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 727C47 View Post
Our guys and girls who have left us ( NJA)and moved on to SWA, UPS, and the like have done very well, then again a lot of them are prior military, and 121, so it may not be an apt comparison.
I think there is a difference between 91(k) and 91. Not a slap at all part 91 departments. Some are great. But even the NBAA has said there are standards, procedural and safety culture issues with many part 91 departments. Same with 135. Less oversight and there are some operators that give the 135 industry a bad name.
Blackhawk is offline  
Old 06-29-2020, 06:37 PM   #52  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Macjet's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Airplanes
Posts: 1,178
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 727C47 View Post
Our guys and girls who have left us ( NJA)and moved on to SWA, UPS, and the like have done very well, then again a lot of them are prior military, and 121, so it may not be an apt comparison.
I know the head of training at WN. He's a great dude. Former Delta guy. Lots of cool stories. He'll be the first one to tell you that WN isn't getting the quality of candidate that they used to.

We have a lot of NetJets, Flex, Citation Shares, Options, and random 135 and 91 guys with us. None of that changes the fact that they have the highest failure rate. Period. The guys that do make it through training are generally solid guys. The best guys coming through class though are former regional guys. 91/91k/135 is just a different animal. Lots of cowboys with very, very few SOP's. That just the nature of the beast. It isn't impossible to go from 91/135 to a 121 but it certainly is harder.
Macjet is offline  
Old 06-29-2020, 06:52 PM   #53  
On Reserve
 
Zudd's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 24
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macjet View Post
I know the head of training at WN. He's a great dude. Former Delta guy. Lots of cool stories. He'll be the first one to tell you that WN isn't getting the quality of candidate that they used to.



We have a lot of NetJets, Flex, Citation Shares, Options, and random 135 and 91 guys with us. None of that changes the fact that they have the highest failure rate. Period. The guys that do make it through training are generally solid guys. The best guys coming through class though are former regional guys. 91/91k/135 is just a different animal. Lots of cowboys with very, very few SOP's. That just the nature of the beast. It isn't impossible to go from 91/135 to a 121 but it certainly is harder.
I'm pretty sure NJs training is 121. Maybe I'm wrong? I don't think the FAA would let them use an AQP if it was a bunch of cowboys, as you say?

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
Zudd is offline  
Old 06-29-2020, 08:58 PM   #54  
Gets Weekends Off
 
AirBear's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zudd View Post
I'm pretty sure NJs training is 121. Maybe I'm wrong? I don't think the FAA would let them use an AQP if it was a bunch of cowboys, as you say?

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
It is. All fleets not being parked will be transitioning to AQP in the next year or so. As far back as my last flight in 2017 we had very strong SOP's, much more so than when I flew at USAirways in the early 2000's.
AirBear is offline  
Old 06-30-2020, 02:40 AM   #55  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Finny McCool's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 108
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macjet View Post
I know the head of training at WN. He's a great dude. Former Delta guy. Lots of cool stories. He'll be the first one to tell you that WN isn't getting the quality of candidate that they used to.

We have a lot of NetJets, Flex, Citation Shares, Options, and random 135 and 91 guys with us. None of that changes the fact that they have the highest failure rate. Period. The guys that do make it through training are generally solid guys. The best guys coming through class though are former regional guys. 91/91k/135 is just a different animal. Lots of cowboys with very, very few SOP's. That just the nature of the beast. It isn't impossible to go from 91/135 to a 121 but it certainly is harder.

Lol. Not a single thing in this post is true.

Last edited by Finny McCool; 06-30-2020 at 02:57 AM.
Finny McCool is offline  
Old 06-30-2020, 08:43 AM   #56  
XOJET Citation X
 
chase's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: XOJET Citation X - FO
Posts: 122
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macjet View Post
I know the head of training at WN. He's a great dude. Former Delta guy. Lots of cool stories. He'll be the first one to tell you that WN isn't getting the quality of candidate that they used to.

We have a lot of NetJets, Flex, Citation Shares, Options, and random 135 and 91 guys with us. None of that changes the fact that they have the highest failure rate. Period. The guys that do make it through training are generally solid guys. The best guys coming through class though are former regional guys. 91/91k/135 is just a different animal. Lots of cowboys with very, very few SOP's. That just the nature of the beast. It isn't impossible to go from 91/135 to a 121 but it certainly is harder.
Left a year ago and find these above statements to be untrue also.

Being at a 135 operator now and “knowing” the head of hiring, SWA has a high regard and respect toward 135/91 folks.

SWA has teamed up with 3 x 135 operators for future hiring Destination 2. If they believed 135 Operations was a problem they certainly wouldn’t funnel potential hires toward that type of flying.

Are there differences in 135 operators and their operations? Absolutely. Always pays to gravitate toward the operators with better reputations but SWA has hired from nearly gene pool of flight operation.

Apply when you meet the minimums, at end the job fairs when you can get invited, attend OBAB, WIA and other external job fairs when they start up again. Don’t let forum spoilers discourage you and good luck.
chase is offline  
Old 06-30-2020, 11:15 AM   #57  
Gets Weekends Off
 
MinRest's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 141
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zudd View Post
I'm pretty sure NJs training is 121. Maybe I'm wrong? I don't think the FAA would let them use an AQP if it was a bunch of cowboys, as you say?

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk
121 training and AQP doesn't make the training harder. My type ride at NJA was probably the easiest type I have done. The training was great and very well laid out. My A320 type was one of the hardest types I have done and that was after I left NJA. A 121 jet type for a 121 operation is more dynamic and involved than the 121 training program NJA uses because it involves the gate timeline, pushing etc. and I was not used to that. Somebody who has previous 121 experience would be totally familiar with that dynamic. Where as somebody that goes from a 121 job to NJA or another 135 outfit and gets a full type, will probably think its a bit easier simply because you fire up a cold dark airplane, taxi and go. They are AQP now but there was literally zero difference in the Phenom type I did with NJA under 121, than any other 135 initial, it was the exact same.
MinRest is offline  
Old 06-30-2020, 11:19 AM   #58  
Gets Weekends Off
 
MinRest's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Feb 2020
Posts: 141
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Macjet View Post
I know the head of training at WN. He's a great dude. Former Delta guy. Lots of cool stories. He'll be the first one to tell you that WN isn't getting the quality of candidate that they used to.

We have a lot of NetJets, Flex, Citation Shares, Options, and random 135 and 91 guys with us. None of that changes the fact that they have the highest failure rate. Period. The guys that do make it through training are generally solid guys. The best guys coming through class though are former regional guys. 91/91k/135 is just a different animal. Lots of cowboys with very, very few SOP's. That just the nature of the beast. It isn't impossible to go from 91/135 to a 121 but it certainly is harder.
To be fair, last time I talked to somebody in the know, NJA is facing the same training problems. It is why they brought back the sim eval for interviews. Hell, look at the failure rate of NJA pilots that transition to a newer fleet. Long time NJA pilots were failing out of the Phenom in droves 2-3 years ago, the Lat too...
MinRest is offline  
Old 07-01-2020, 10:22 AM   #59  
Gets Weekends Off
 
Finny McCool's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Posts: 108
Default

Learning how to make a push call takes about one minute. I have been through three 121 training prograns, a 135 training program and training at NJA. Currently at SWA. Training at SWA is good but is not difficult. I'm not aware of any Frac pilots that had difficulty. If someone had a problem at Spirit that is an issue with Spirit or the pilot who had the problem. In my opinion the best training program that I have been through was the CMH Falcon program pre Gorman and the worst was the AQP light brought in to NJA by the US Airways crew, Gorman, Queen, et al. My guess is Sean has cleaned up that mess.

And airline flying is just so much easier.
Finny McCool is offline  
Old 07-01-2020, 01:11 PM   #60  
Gets Weekends Off
 
AirBear's Avatar
 
Joined APC: Dec 2017
Position: Retired NJA & AA
Posts: 839
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Finny McCool View Post
Learning how to make a push call takes about one minute. I have been through three 121 training prograns, a 135 training program and training at NJA. Currently at SWA. Training at SWA is good but is not difficult. I'm not aware of any Frac pilots that had difficulty. If someone had a problem at Spirit that is an issue with Spirit or the pilot who had the problem. In my opinion the best training program that I have been through was the CMH Falcon program pre Gorman and the worst was the AQP light brought in to NJA by the US Airways crew, Gorman, Queen, et al. My guess is Sean has cleaned up that mess.

And airline flying is just so much easier.
Airline flying is less challenging, but that's why I liked NetJets. Go to do something different. My last initial was Phenom 300 and it was the easiest initial I've ever done and I've had 13 initials and several long/short requals since 1989. Phenom was also one of the easiest to fly Jets I've been in. When it wasn't broke anyway.
EMBRAER=Every Mechanical Break Requires Another Electrical Reset
AirBear is offline  
 
 
 

 
Post Reply
 



Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search


Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Time line interview to start date Flyinlynn Air Wisconsin 10 09-24-2019 09:32 AM
Netjets sues Landmark and Signature Sata 4000 RP Fractional 0 06-03-2013 10:44 AM
NetJets Interview...SIC Time Logged N636DL Fractional 10 12-25-2007 11:51 AM
Netjets new TA pay FO yr 1 $69,188. NetJets_DA2Easy Fractional 141 11-28-2007 05:29 PM
NetJets Interview...SIC Time Logged N636DL Fractional 0 10-18-2007 02:10 PM


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 04:13 PM.