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Old 10-18-2007, 02:10 PM   #1  
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Default NetJets Interview...SIC Time Logged

I have a question for those who have gone through the NetJets interview process regarding their SIC time. As we all know, in a part 91 operation when one is flying right seat in a King Air or Citation CJ1, CJ2 or any other aircraft that requires just one pilot onboard, when it comes to logging that SIC time, that can be a very, very grey area. Technically, the regs state that SIC time can only be logged in aircraft that require two pilots, the SIC has an SIC type rating, or if the operation under which the flight is being conducted requires two pilots to be on board at all times (part 135 operation certificate etc). (As I understand it part 91 insurance requirements aren't considered "operational requirements" in the eyes of the FAA since part 91 operators do not have an operation certificate?)
I work for a management company that flies under part 91. I have a considerable amount of SIC time in the King Air's and CJ1 and CJ2, and am looking to go to NetJets when I meet the mins. The Capt's I fly with are not single pilot typed in the airplane, so technically I am required to be there, and regardless if they are single pilot typed or not, our insurance company requires my prescence, I am current in the aircraft in terms of training and landings, however I've read in many forums etc that regardless of all of that, my time as an SIC is not loggable time.
My question is, is NetJets really going to turn away someone who meets their min's, has 3+ years with corporate experience and dealing with passengers needs and wants simply because a chunk of the applicant's time was logged as SIC in a King Air or CJ under part 91? I know that the NetJets application has a huge time grid, and the issue would probably be weeded out at that point, however in all seriousness, is that SIC time I've logged up for scrutiny by an interviewer? Thanks for the opinions and advice from this question!
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Old 10-18-2007, 03:44 PM   #2  
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So where do you draw the line? If you can log SIC in a King-Air, why not in a Navajo or Baron? Is there some kind of special dispensation given because it burns jet fuel? If the aircraft is certified to be flown single pilot and it's flown under FAR Part 91 or on a single pilot part 135 certificate you may have a tough time selling that time. Good luck. I hope I'm wrong.
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:01 PM   #3  
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I flew right seat in a Conquest years ago for insurance reasons. I sat left seat on empty legs. I only logged the PIC portion of the flights, not the right seat/SIC. In general it's better to be conservative. You could always try and call to ask your question. Best to hear it from the source on this one. If I were doing the hiring, I'd probably not want to see applicants put it on their app.
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:26 PM   #4  
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You cannot log SIC time unless the aircraft requires a two pilot crew.

You can log the time if you are flying and are the PIC, but that means the other guy can't log it.
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:31 PM   #5  
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I think you will be up against far too many people who are properly qualified and probably won't even make it to an interviewer (sorry, don't mean to come off harsh, just being honest).

"The Capt's I fly with are not single pilot typed in the airplane"

If that were the case, an SIC would be required and then your time would be legitimate SIC time, so I am willing to bet that they do have a single pilot authorization.

"if they are single pilot typed or not, our insurance company requires my prescence"

Unfortunately, this doesn't count for much other than great experience and upward movement within a company.

"I am current in the aircraft in terms of training"

What kind of training? Is the King Air a 90, 100 or 200? If yes and you have the commercial multi, you could be logging PIC on your legs. Now THAT would help you.

Sounds like you need to either get yourself into a better SIC job or go get some kind of PIC job. As long as it is multi, even piston, it would set you up better.
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Old 10-18-2007, 04:39 PM   #6  
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Like you said this is a gray area, and I DON'T have the answer. I flew for a part 135 operator in the right seat of a Caravan of all planes. The FISDO bought the time. When I met the mins for Express Jet I went to the panel class interview and was KICKED out. This made me think the time was bunk, and it maybe. I moved to the left seat and at 1200 hrs and flew for about 1000 more hoping it would justify my SIC time or just drowned it out. Moving down the road, I have interviewed at about 8 regionals and the topic never came up again. At the NJA interview this was not a problem and they never mentioned it. I had enough TT that if you subtracted my SIC time I still met the mins. My advice to you is when you meet the mins send in an app. If they don't like it,you will not be called for an interview. Get in that left seat if you can. If this continues to haunt you, obviously move on. The competition is going to get tougher if our IBB passes.
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Old 10-18-2007, 05:06 PM   #7  
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Remember that there is aircraft certification and pilot certification. Just because an aircraft is certified for single pilot operations, does not mean that an SIC is not required. IF your Captains do not have the single pilot type, then you are a required crew member, and the time is legit. If you do a small bit of research on the CJ type ratings, you should find a difference between what's printed on the certificate in the case of SP certification. A few years ago, when I was a low time Metro Capt. flying pax, my certificate said "SA227" and an additional note that said "SIC Required" under limitations (if I remember correctly). During recurrent, I subsequently took the "SP" check ride and had the SIC Required limitation removed. Before that, any FO could log SIC time with me in a "Single Pilot" airplane, after that, the FO had to be required (IFR no autopilot, carrying pax etc...) if he wanted to log it. Bottom line, no SP type = SIC required regardless of operation. Hope that helps.

Note: This only applies to a/c that require a type rating so I wouldn't recommend logging the King Air Time (90 or 200).
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Old 10-18-2007, 06:12 PM   #8  
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Guys-
Thank you very much for your input and advice on the situation. I now have a lot more to go off of in terms of what to do from now on.
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Old 12-25-2007, 08:51 AM   #9  
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Hi!

re Dch8fo's questions:
On the app, and the update form, they don't ask ANY of the above questions. I would fill out the apps as your time is logged.

Hopefully, you can get an interview. If they ask any questions about your time in the inteview, you can explain them then. If they don't like your qualifications, you will get rejected and you can then apply again in 6 months-from the little I know, it is easier to get hired the 2nd time. In my case, they did not ask one single question about my time, or the airplanes I flew. Another guy didn't even show them his logbook and they didn't ask.

Now, if you get an app process that asks the above questions, then you fill out their time grid as requested.

Happy Holidays and God Bless!

cliff
YYZ
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Old 12-25-2007, 10:34 AM   #10  
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N636DL View Post
Guys-
Thank you very much for your input and advice on the situation. I now have a lot more to go off of in terms of what to do from now on.
I don't think you can log that if the a/c is only single pilot. If you log it, and they call you, you are going to have a hard time trying to expain that.
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