FLOPS Terminates 70 Pilots with no Regard to Seniority
05-23-2008, 05:21 PM
#12
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Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: F/O- G-V/550
Posts: 1,163
The morale/attitude at FLOPS has been toxic for a while, this will only make matters worse. Even if they get an industry leading contract tomorrow, everything is tainted now.
As of right now, I put FLOPS at Mesa's level.....
As of right now, I put FLOPS at Mesa's level.....
Last edited by UCLAbruins; 05-24-2008 at 02:32 AM.
05-23-2008, 06:40 PM
#13
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Joined APC: Mar 2007
Posts: 33
And Hoffa wonders why NetJets is leaving for their own union. IBT is a joke, didn't help NJA with the 05 or 07 contracts but has been sending NJA pilots all sorts of emails and mail about how the group should stay with IBT...if IBT doesn't stand up for the FLOPS pilots it will be criminal!
05-23-2008, 07:00 PM
#14
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Position: 747 FO
Posts: 937
Originally Posted by Jake
And Hoffa wonders why NetJets is leaving for their own union. IBT is a joke, didn't help NJA with the 05 or 07 contracts but has been sending NJA pilots all sorts of emails and mail about how the group should stay with IBT...if IBT doesn't stand up for the FLOPS pilots it will be criminal!
05-23-2008, 10:14 PM
#15
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Standing in front of the tank with a shopping bag
Posts: 918
If they can't do it, call IBT HQ in DC and call the press!
Hey Zapata,
I hope that they do kick butt for you guys. But if you need more help, and it's not coming from 1108 strong or fast enough, try calling DC and ask for Hoffa himself. I would also seek support from your your brothers and sisters at NetJets, even if they are in the process of decertifying the IBT. We are all pilots and I am sure that they would be eager to help if they can.
We were forced to to this twice when I was an organizer and officer for a company under IBT Local 747. During the UPS IBT strike, we had no guidance or support from 747 and we were the only IBT airline flying UPS goods then. We worked with the IPA ourselves on most issues, and after taking their advice, we finally complained right to DC. Of course, IBT 747 president was mad as hell at us, but we finally got some support.
The squeaky wheel definitely got the grease.
Also, after my pilot group there went union, the company furloughed out of seniority 11 pilots due to "slow business" during heavy season... all members of the MEC, organizers, and sympathizers. When IBT 747 did next to nothing for us, we went to the local newspaper to complain about this injustice... It embarrassed both the IBT and the company.
We started getting some action when the newspaper called the IBT about how they would help us... I still have the clipping
. But, in the end, we solved the problem ourselves: The remaining pilots grounded planes ALL across the country and the remaining 89 pilots refused to fly any extra. One tried, but a group of pilots, wives, and children showed up at that pilot's house and embarrassed the wife and the pilot not to do this selfish thing. Management was flying their butts off until they timed out and the company was forced to cancel trips. In the end, it was our unity that helped us to prevail and get us our jobs back ... Unity works!
Just a few thoughts that I hope will be helpful for your pilots in their time of need.
In Unity,
B727DRVR
I hope that they do kick butt for you guys. But if you need more help, and it's not coming from 1108 strong or fast enough, try calling DC and ask for Hoffa himself. I would also seek support from your your brothers and sisters at NetJets, even if they are in the process of decertifying the IBT. We are all pilots and I am sure that they would be eager to help if they can.
We were forced to to this twice when I was an organizer and officer for a company under IBT Local 747. During the UPS IBT strike, we had no guidance or support from 747 and we were the only IBT airline flying UPS goods then. We worked with the IPA ourselves on most issues, and after taking their advice, we finally complained right to DC. Of course, IBT 747 president was mad as hell at us, but we finally got some support.
The squeaky wheel definitely got the grease.
Also, after my pilot group there went union, the company furloughed out of seniority 11 pilots due to "slow business" during heavy season... all members of the MEC, organizers, and sympathizers. When IBT 747 did next to nothing for us, we went to the local newspaper to complain about this injustice... It embarrassed both the IBT and the company.
We started getting some action when the newspaper called the IBT about how they would help us... I still have the clipping
. But, in the end, we solved the problem ourselves: The remaining pilots grounded planes ALL across the country and the remaining 89 pilots refused to fly any extra. One tried, but a group of pilots, wives, and children showed up at that pilot's house and embarrassed the wife and the pilot not to do this selfish thing. Management was flying their butts off until they timed out and the company was forced to cancel trips. In the end, it was our unity that helped us to prevail and get us our jobs back ... Unity works! Just a few thoughts that I hope will be helpful for your pilots in their time of need.
In Unity,
B727DRVR
05-26-2008, 06:53 AM
#16
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2006
Posts: 228
You are correct.....1108 will do all they can do and will not lie down.....But the IBT won't do SH!T!!!!! Don't lump the two together, 1108 and the IBT have very differing agendas, they are not as 1. The IBT will only collect there cash and watch from far.
The only thing the IBT has done for NJA is ask us to vote in the failed POSTA in 04'. Glad we didn't listen!
The only thing the IBT has done for NJA is ask us to vote in the failed POSTA in 04'. Glad we didn't listen!
05-26-2008, 07:50 AM
#17
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Joined APC: Feb 2007
Position: Right Seat
Posts: 1,458
Seniority does not determine how well you do your job. Before pointing fingers, who's to say that maybe these people were not doing their job properly? Not saying that is the case, but it could very well be the case.
I have seen dirtbags retain their jobs due to seniority while very hardworking people that deserve to keep their job way more than the senior person get laid off because they are junior. I have never been an advocate of the seniority system and never will. I would rather advance by my contributions and performance rather than time in service.
Is FLOPS hiring?
I have seen dirtbags retain their jobs due to seniority while very hardworking people that deserve to keep their job way more than the senior person get laid off because they are junior. I have never been an advocate of the seniority system and never will. I would rather advance by my contributions and performance rather than time in service.
Is FLOPS hiring?
05-26-2008, 08:12 AM
#18
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Joined APC: Jul 2006
Position: The Right One
Posts: 588
Originally Posted by texaspilot76
Seniority does not determine how well you do your job. Before pointing fingers, who's to say that maybe these people were not doing their job properly? Not saying that is the case, but it could very well be the case.
I have seen dirtbags retain their jobs due to seniority while very hardworking people that deserve to keep their job way more than the senior person get laid off because they are junior. I have never been an advocate of the seniority system and never will. I would rather advance by my contributions and performance rather than time in service.
Is FLOPS hiring?
I have seen dirtbags retain their jobs due to seniority while very hardworking people that deserve to keep their job way more than the senior person get laid off because they are junior. I have never been an advocate of the seniority system and never will. I would rather advance by my contributions and performance rather than time in service.
Is FLOPS hiring?
Fundamentally, I may not disagree with you concerning advancing by one's contributations to an organization, but that is not the world we live in. The two most inportant issues that any pilot group has are:
1. Scope, once you let some of it go, it's all but over.
2. Seniority, and it's associated rights
In that order, always!
For those that get it, no explanation is necessary, for those that don't, no explanation is possible.
If you really mean what you have written, then you will never fit in with any unionized group. Very shortly you will be forever known as what you are about to become, a SCAB. I truly hope not.
SD
05-26-2008, 10:16 AM
#19
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
SabreDriver -
"If you really mean what you have written, then you will never fit in with any unionized group. Very shortly you will be forever known as what you are about to become, a SCAB. I truly hope not."
Do you mean that anyone that now hires on with FLOPS is a scab? I am one of those that you mention above that doesn 't necessarily understand everything about the airline industry - especially the politics of it sometimes - but I think that I am smart enough to eventually figure it out (with help) along with the commuting, the bidding, the schedules and the pay system!
In the end though - are you saying that anyone that goes to work for a company that has had to lay people off is automatically a scab?
USMCFLYR
"If you really mean what you have written, then you will never fit in with any unionized group. Very shortly you will be forever known as what you are about to become, a SCAB. I truly hope not."
Do you mean that anyone that now hires on with FLOPS is a scab? I am one of those that you mention above that doesn 't necessarily understand everything about the airline industry - especially the politics of it sometimes - but I think that I am smart enough to eventually figure it out (with help) along with the commuting, the bidding, the schedules and the pay system!
In the end though - are you saying that anyone that goes to work for a company that has had to lay people off is automatically a scab?
USMCFLYR
05-26-2008, 10:22 AM
#20
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: Standing in front of the tank with a shopping bag
Posts: 918
Are you nuts?!?! Or are you just uninformed?
Originally Posted by texaspilot76
Seniority does not determine how well you do your job. Before pointing fingers, who's to say that maybe these people were not doing their job properly? Not saying that is the case, but it could very well be the case.
I have seen dirtbags retain their jobs due to seniority while very hardworking people that deserve to keep their job way more than the senior person get laid off because they are junior. I have never been an advocate of the seniority system and never will. I would rather advance by my contributions and performance rather than time in service.
Is FLOPS hiring?
TexasPilot76,
With all due respect, are you nuts!?!
To make your previous post... well, you obviously don't see the big picture there. Flight Options has a proven history of Draconian management decisions toward their employees, which is the reason that they voted the Teamsters in to begin with. Negotiations aren't going that well, and then guess what... SEVENTY (70!) pilots are all FIRED (not furloughed) the SAME DAY. Things that make you go HMMM! One of these things is not like the other.... One of these things just doesn't belong..
Why isn't it painfully obvious to you that these pilots are hostages? And even if they were "bad", why were they terminated on the SAME DAY!? It is obvious to any pilot that has worked for an onerous management team that these pilots had no control over their terminations... I will even give you a few might have been a few pilots terminated for "cause", but SEVENTY pilots terminated the same day??!? Come on, now: That's a BLOOD BATH, a massacre!
In making your previous post, you showed either amazing cluelessness or outright hatefulness toward your fellow pilots. To ask, "Is FLOPS Hiring" after such an atrocity, is not only cold-hearted, it is vindictive. It is no different than asking after your fellow pilot just got divorced, "Is she looking?". And when Eastern, Northwest, Comair, went on strike, someone else asked... "Are they hiring?"
TexasPilot76, I feel that you owe your fellow pilots at Flight Options an immediate apology for your previous post insinuating their character (as "dirtbags") was worthy of termination. I wonder if your attitude would be different if you worked for a company that had a similarly onerous Management, and YOU were terminated. I have been there and I have been a hostage before, like many other pilots on this board have.
You need to think twice about your previous post and look deep within.. Would you want another pilot saying that about you..?!?
Look deep within and issue an apology!
Respectfully,
B727DRVR
Seniority does not determine how well you do your job. Before pointing fingers, who's to say that maybe these people were not doing their job properly? Not saying that is the case, but it could very well be the case.
I have seen dirtbags retain their jobs due to seniority while very hardworking people that deserve to keep their job way more than the senior person get laid off because they are junior. I have never been an advocate of the seniority system and never will. I would rather advance by my contributions and performance rather than time in service.
Is FLOPS hiring?
TexasPilot76,
With all due respect, are you nuts!?!
To make your previous post... well, you obviously don't see the big picture there. Flight Options has a proven history of Draconian management decisions toward their employees, which is the reason that they voted the Teamsters in to begin with. Negotiations aren't going that well, and then guess what... SEVENTY (70!) pilots are all FIRED (not furloughed) the SAME DAY. Things that make you go HMMM! One of these things is not like the other.... One of these things just doesn't belong..
Why isn't it painfully obvious to you that these pilots are hostages? And even if they were "bad", why were they terminated on the SAME DAY!? It is obvious to any pilot that has worked for an onerous management team that these pilots had no control over their terminations... I will even give you a few might have been a few pilots terminated for "cause", but SEVENTY pilots terminated the same day??!? Come on, now: That's a BLOOD BATH, a massacre!
In making your previous post, you showed either amazing cluelessness or outright hatefulness toward your fellow pilots. To ask, "Is FLOPS Hiring" after such an atrocity, is not only cold-hearted, it is vindictive. It is no different than asking after your fellow pilot just got divorced, "Is she looking?". And when Eastern, Northwest, Comair, went on strike, someone else asked... "Are they hiring?"
TexasPilot76, I feel that you owe your fellow pilots at Flight Options an immediate apology for your previous post insinuating their character (as "dirtbags") was worthy of termination. I wonder if your attitude would be different if you worked for a company that had a similarly onerous Management, and YOU were terminated. I have been there and I have been a hostage before, like many other pilots on this board have.
You need to think twice about your previous post and look deep within.. Would you want another pilot saying that about you..?!?
Look deep within and issue an apology!
Respectfully,
B727DRVR
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