It depends on how you define "A lot"... there were 160+ let go, and I know of a small handful that have jobs now.. Most I know went to India, or to Emirates... I know of two at NJA, one at Virgin, none at CS, and 4 got hired and then subsequently told no thanks at Flight Options.. we all pretty much keep in touch thru a company message board. The competition for jobs is great now, with ATA, Aloha, Champion, Air Midwest he dozen or so airlines that are furloughing, the dozen or so that are in trouble (Mesa, etc..)... it's the toughest job markets I've ever seen, worse than post-911.

 

You must be looking at old reports, because even the CEO of CS admitted to us a year ago at Indoc that NJ is making a profit. I also happen to be at NJ Indoc at the moment and can tell you 100% that the company is very profitable. I'm not trying to slam CS because I really liked it there, but CS is a distant second to NJ hands down. Hopefully they will start to turn a profit soon, but who knows.

For the guy who said there is huge growth potential at CS, the CEO told us directly that he intends to keep CS small intentionally (they currently have around 85 planes and the final number he gave us was less than double that number). Their business plan is to be the "elite fractional club" that people want to get into. That can change obviously, but that's what we were told by the CEO. Also, upgrade is unknown at both companies. In early 2007, CS passed out paperwork that said 2 year upgrade, then said 2.5-3 yrs at Indoc, now it looks to be 3-4 yrs best guess. Next year will be a better indicator of CS growth when they are done adjusting their old fleets. On the other hand, NJ is hiring like crazy (CS is not, next year might be different) and has tons of aircraft on order--so who knows what upgrade is going to be there.

With few exceptions, vacation, benefits, and job security are better at NJ. CS is a great company, but you guys asked the reasons people are leaving and got an answer. I know NJ is not a perfect company and who knows what will happen in the future. Don't try to speculate when you don't know what's up and don't attack people who have been there and are trying to help you out with good info.

 

Good post Chris.. I thought you were still with CS... One question for you (and you can PM me if you prefer).. with upgrade taking 4 years at CS, and you having a year on the property there to start... but taking 7+ at NJA, aren't you walking away from money? I'm sure a lot of personal things go into a choice to go over, but I'm hearing a lot of guys are... is there a problem at CS, or is NJA just too tempting to pass up? For me, the faster upgrade means a quicker time to the 6 figures salary, and being home based in PHX is also a great thing, so I can't see NJA being better for me..

thanks and best of luck there..

 

That was definately part of my decision-making process, but not a huge one. The vacation was a much bigger deal for me. Coming from the military, I value time at home more than I do a six-figure salary. Yeah, I flushed a year down the toilet, but like I said, upgrade is still up in the air for both CS and NJ. To me, NJ is growing at a rapid rate while CS is stagnant this year (they have a low net growth of aircraft due to fleet downsizing and they are fat on captains). I'm hoping for a 4-6 yr upgrade at NJ. Job security also played a big part in the decision. Two good guys were fired off the cuff for questionable reasons (one got his job back a month later thankfully). A six-figure salary isn't worth much if you're out on the street with no notice. I also don't believe CS would have given the raises they did if NJ hadn't done it first. NJ is clearly the industry leader currently (and for the foreseeable future) and I didn't have much seniority to give up so it made sense to go.

 

Chris. Malpass.

 

fair enough Chris, best of luck and thanks for making some room on the list for me

 

That's me. It's no secret--my picture's in my avatar. Do I know you?

 

Chris,

Didn't CS have 26 bases to NetJets 5, and more pay than NetJets prior to NetJets new contract? You seem to be trying to paint CS in a bad light here and I don't know why. CS was the industry leader until NetJets new contract....right?

 

That was my point above... I recall when I flew at Swift, we used to laugh at the Netjets pay rates... we were getting $70K on the X for FO's and they weren't even giving their CA's that... CS back then, while not paying like today, offered a 7 and 7 and decent pay for a fractional (industry leading I recall) without a union forcing their hands.

Netjets pilots get the credit for the workrules and pay at NetJets, not the company in my view.

 

Wrong. Again, I'm not trying to paint CS in a bad light; I liked working there. But if you continue to ask the questions, I'll give truthful answers to the best of my ability. CE750 is right that the NJ pilots are to be credited for NJ being the current industry leaders. However, NJ management (to their credit) learned back in '05 that they had to work with the pilots towards a common goal (create a great company) for that to happen. CS management lost sight of that this past year and is now playing catch up to try to correct it. They are currently on the right track but have a long way to go to recapture the momentum they had.

Yes CS management HAD the foresight to provide more bases (25 to NJ 5) than NJ, but they didn't keep that momentum. Now NJ has 100 bases while CS is only hiring into 8. You might think CS was the industry leader before the TA, but if you look at the facts, you might think differently. CS gave their pilots a raise in '05 two weeks before NJ gave their pilots a raise and said it was a coincidence. The CS raises were magically $1,000 more in base salary than the NJ raises (thus the reason why CS claimed to have the best paid pilots). In reality, NJ's work rules and benefits in the '05 contract blew the $1,000 difference in base pay out of the water. The CS pilot group also believes that the raises only came about when their parent company Textron got wind of the new NJ pay and "suggested" CS management do something about it. CS has also never posted a profit like NJ has done the past couple years. With the exception of a few points, NJ has clearly been the industry leader since their contract in '05.

That being said, CS management has made some huge strides since the beginning of the year in a positive direction. All the pilots they have lost this year have made them realize they need to make these changes. CS pilots are also currently seeking representation. However, like I've already said, CS is a great company to work for and you shouldn't be afraid to seek employment there.