Former USAirways CEO Siegel Now XOJet CEO
10-12-2008, 07:54 PM
#41
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by topgun
Don't head for the soda shop. Stick around and enjoy the launch!
Why are the CL300 available? Because customers that ordered them 3 years ago and made large progress payments cannot afford them now.
How is XOJet any different formthe rest? A different type of aircraft?-No
A unique product?-No, we are still just moving people from A to B on their schedule. Lower upfront cost?- No, all the fractionals offer a similar aircraft at a price dictated by the original equipment manufacturer. All place large orders, all receive similar discounts. Several are type launch customers and get a much larger discount. This is not the case for XOJET. The Ciataion X and CL300 were around long befoe the XOJET order.
Customer service? Yes XOJET may have a chance here. New aircraft, fresh crews, but without the support of a strong management team, superior maintenance and a strong operational balance sheet, the foundation starts to crumble under even the best of flight crews.
I wish them the best of luck luck but see it for what it is. A shiny rocket on a stormy day with a small launch window! Remember the rocket is not the star of the show. The real star is the unique mission it performs that few others can duplicate.
Why are the CL300 available? Because customers that ordered them 3 years ago and made large progress payments cannot afford them now.
How is XOJet any different formthe rest? A different type of aircraft?-No
A unique product?-No, we are still just moving people from A to B on their schedule. Lower upfront cost?- No, all the fractionals offer a similar aircraft at a price dictated by the original equipment manufacturer. All place large orders, all receive similar discounts. Several are type launch customers and get a much larger discount. This is not the case for XOJET. The Ciataion X and CL300 were around long befoe the XOJET order.
Customer service? Yes XOJET may have a chance here. New aircraft, fresh crews, but without the support of a strong management team, superior maintenance and a strong operational balance sheet, the foundation starts to crumble under even the best of flight crews.
I wish them the best of luck luck but see it for what it is. A shiny rocket on a stormy day with a small launch window! Remember the rocket is not the star of the show. The real star is the unique mission it performs that few others can duplicate.
10-13-2008, 03:16 AM
#42
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2008
Posts: 35
Originally Posted by TheSulaco
Must be a NetJets pilot...
My guess is he is a Regional Pilot, or he recently was a Regional pilot and is having a difficult time with the transition.
It's obvious from his post that he doesn't understand the variety and diversity of products offered in this segment of aviation. Just because two companies fly the same aircraft type does not mean they offer similar products or have similar cost structures.
10-13-2008, 04:57 AM
#43
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: Chief Pilot G550
Posts: 63
My customers are not scarce and not a regional pilot making a transition etc.
I have been both a customer and purchaser of fractional flying. The products offered by the fractionals are basically the same (with the exeption of larger fractionals being able to sub international aircraft for specific customer trips): Meet the passenger in the FBO lobby, exchange hellos, check an ID, run off to a waiting aircraft and safely and comfortably take then to their destination. We hope you enjoyed your flight, come see us again!
The product offered in the eyes of the frequent user is as generic as the airlines. Similar aircraft, similar age, similar seat and contrary to what you think: similar price!! 5-10% difference does not make a company just as in the airlines!
As for cost structures, they actually don't vary by as much as you think.
All have the same fixed costs: training, maintenance, fuel, landing fees, insurance and acquisition costs. Pilot salaries vary slightly as do their benefits but the larger fractionals make up most of the difference by performing more duties in house and not depending on outside 3rd parties. Things such as pilot training and maintenance, or professional services such as lawyers and accountants are handled in house at a lower cost.
XOJET has a future along with all the other fractionals. It just isn't as unique or revolutionary as your PR people lead you to believe. Ask the hard questions: What makes us so unique that a new customer (as few as there are) will only choose XOJET. Where did the financing come from and what was it for? Aircraft acqiusition or flight operations? Is your managment team stable and in it for the long run or a revolving door made up of people with no direct backround in fractional jet management companies?
Do the financiers have a history of long term investment or historically have they been in it for the short term gain? Do they CURRENTLY have the stated funds and will they weather a long term slowdown. Yesterday's letters of financial committment are unfortunately not worth the paper they are written on. Lines of credit unfortunately have no meaining in our new post government bailout business enviroment.
Don't waive the victory flag while the rocket is still on the launch pad!
I have been both a customer and purchaser of fractional flying. The products offered by the fractionals are basically the same (with the exeption of larger fractionals being able to sub international aircraft for specific customer trips): Meet the passenger in the FBO lobby, exchange hellos, check an ID, run off to a waiting aircraft and safely and comfortably take then to their destination. We hope you enjoyed your flight, come see us again!
The product offered in the eyes of the frequent user is as generic as the airlines. Similar aircraft, similar age, similar seat and contrary to what you think: similar price!! 5-10% difference does not make a company just as in the airlines!
As for cost structures, they actually don't vary by as much as you think.
All have the same fixed costs: training, maintenance, fuel, landing fees, insurance and acquisition costs. Pilot salaries vary slightly as do their benefits but the larger fractionals make up most of the difference by performing more duties in house and not depending on outside 3rd parties. Things such as pilot training and maintenance, or professional services such as lawyers and accountants are handled in house at a lower cost.
XOJET has a future along with all the other fractionals. It just isn't as unique or revolutionary as your PR people lead you to believe. Ask the hard questions: What makes us so unique that a new customer (as few as there are) will only choose XOJET. Where did the financing come from and what was it for? Aircraft acqiusition or flight operations? Is your managment team stable and in it for the long run or a revolving door made up of people with no direct backround in fractional jet management companies?
Do the financiers have a history of long term investment or historically have they been in it for the short term gain? Do they CURRENTLY have the stated funds and will they weather a long term slowdown. Yesterday's letters of financial committment are unfortunately not worth the paper they are written on. Lines of credit unfortunately have no meaining in our new post government bailout business enviroment.
Don't waive the victory flag while the rocket is still on the launch pad!
10-16-2008, 10:08 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2007
Posts: 288
Originally Posted by 757upspilot
If they don't form a union and work with other pilots at fractionals they will have no chance. Seems clear that the fractional operators are going for cost reductions.
Agreed, but I think they would be better off following the IPA model of UPS rather than the ALPA or IBT (Teamster) model of others. NetJets even dumped the IBT (http://www.njasap.com/history.html) to follow a model more closely aligned with UPS; and I think it will serve them well. If the XOJET guys haven’t been in contact with http://www.njasap.com/ then I think they should start making the calls quick.
Just one pilots opinion.
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