Aero1900

That's not going to happen. They are not going to present us with a TA until they think we should vote yes on it. Presenting us a bad TA for the purpose of voting it down is a huge waste of time and energy.

I believe the union is going to make a strong case to the NMB this week that we need stronger assistance from them to force the company's hand. We are in a strong position. I believe our NC has done everything right and we stand in good faith with the board and the company is clearly in bad standing with the board. Let the process work.

PulledBreaker

I know they won't TA the last work rule concessions, but I get the feeling our new pay rates are staring us in the face. Nobody is giving up drop/swap, it's the core of our QOL and the union knows that. Keeping line bidding, and all that comes with it, has a price. That price is what needs to be communicated to our MEC. Because sitting idle with the NMB doesn't mean we are on the verge of an impasse.

SFA320

I agree with Aero. I’m not sure why everybody is losing their minds. The process is working, yes the company offer was sub standard but it has been the best offer the company has made. They know they will have to pay up to sustain their growth, they are just delaying as long as possible. I’m guessing the NMB will schedule one last “end all” meeting before we are released. We are getting close everybody. The NC didn’t hesitate to deny the last offer, they will continue to do so until we get industry average. That’s always been the plan nothing has changed. We will get there gentlemen.
In all honesty this has been no different from any other negotiation I’ve been through flying 121. It’s a slow and painful process. Try not to take it personal, it’s all “just business”. They know how much they need to pay, eventually they will do it.

Wheelswatch

I actually appreciate the reassurance many posters are giving, as well as the admonishment to settle down. I think the cooler heads do have the moral high ground on this, so I will take all this advice. If I'm honest, the fear comes from past experiences, at the regional level, feeling like ALPA pushed us, or scared us, into accepting truly industry trailing stuff. One time a contract passed by 8 votes, and the vigorous campaign to get it through felt so forced. Granted, that was then and this is now, nor are we fee for departure here, so I concede these feelings no longer apply. Apples and Oranges right?

dracir1

Agreed.

There are really TWO issues here: one) is that we were negotiating a "moving target" given that the longer it took, the greater our ask needed to be to keep up with the industry and two) is maintaining the perception of good faith bargaining while doing so. Which is why I mentioned in previous postings that our initial ask was way too low. I'm already unhappy w/ the NC about that. I think they're bargaining skills may be fine (or they may not be I'm not really in a position to tell) but I DO know i'm not willing to vote yes on a POS TA that is industry average or lower. At this point, it may be water under the bridge as it seems that time of negotiations are over.

Now, STEP 1 is we need to ENGAGE the NMB with a proffer to ensure that days, weeks or more don't pass by while no efforts are made to get a new contract. This is why we pay ALPA what we do. This is the time our NC earns their keep. This is when we determine if they are the right ones for the job.

Once that happens, and the NMB releases us, STEP 2 (probably during the cooling off period) is that we make our ask to be an above industry standard contract. That doesn't mean above industry average wages but crappy QoL rules. That's above industry standard as a whole. This is absolutely necessary because it will be average in 2.5 years and below average by the time its time to renegotiate the next one.

Anything else is unacceptable and I'd rather close the doors on the company.

ReserveCA

[QUOTE=dracir1;2579859]Agreed.

There are really TWO issues here: one) is that we were negotiating a "moving target" given that the longer it took, the greater our ask needed to be to keep up with the industry and two) is maintaining the perception of good faith bargaining while doing so. Which is why I mentioned in previous postings that our initial ask was way too low. I'm already unhappy w/ the NC about that. I think they're bargaining skills may be fine (or they may not be I'm not really in a position to tell) but I DO know i'm not willing to vote yes on a POS TA that is industry average or lower. At this point, it may be water under the bridge as it seems that time of negotiations are over.

Now, STEP 1 is we need to ENGAGE the NMB with a proffer to ensure that days, weeks or more don't pass by while no efforts are made to get a new contract. This is why we pay ALPA what we do. This is the time our NC earns their keep. This is when we determine if they are the right ones for the job.

Once that happens, and the NMB releases us, STEP 2 (probably during the cooling off period) is that we make our ask to be an above industry standard contract. That doesn't mean above industry average wages but crappy QoL rules. That's above industry standard as a whole. This is absolutely necessary because it will be average in 2.5 years and below average by the time its time to renegotiate the next one.

ANY THING ELSE IS UN ACCEPTABLE AND I WOULD RATHER CLOSE THE DOORS ON THE COMPANY

^^^^^^^^^ nailed it!

motorboatin

Yes, the proposal that they informed you was enthusiastically rejected? Your comment makes no fundamental sense. Your exact words were “it's easy to deduce that they'll assume many are content with this” So enlighten me, people are content with the proposal that the NC rejected?? Your apparent need to be correct and the distance of your own head in your own rectal cavity are crystal clear, so go ahead and cast the NO vote on the ballot you apparently think exists.

Also, show up at a PUB and inform the reps what you want! That’s a brilliant suggestion. Do you not realize that the pilot group has already had its chance to weigh in? Trying to redirect the NC at this point in negotiations is beyond ignorant. Anyone that says...damnit, I don’t care!!...simply does not understand the intracacies and reality of the bargaining world. Good day sir

motorboatin

And to the “I’d rather close the doors on the company” population...are you kidding me? You’re so full of sh!t. When it comes down to it, you’re just gonna keep picking up opentime and doing what you can to benefit you. And that’s fine, but seriously, that small minded mentality sounds so rough and tough and union
powerhouse-esque, but it’s laugable and you’d never compromise yourself and your own livelihood to prove a point in solidarity.

Wheelswatch

If we need to strike, you'd better be wrong about this.

PulledBreaker

Last 2 capts I've flown with said they'd take it as is, because they only have a few years left. So ya, if that proposal was sent to us as a TA without any additional changes, there's 2 yes votes to my 1 no.

But you just keep on with your efforts of trying to be a condescending know it all. I can read between the lines as to what's about to happen here.