Upgrade Times - Simple Data
09-16-2018, 11:05 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 461
Originally Posted by Powderkeg
I don’t doubt this. But until HR also administers check rides and IOE it is incumbent on our training department to uphold the standard. I don’t care if our washout rate is 99% I expect them to not compromise safety.
Originally Posted by OpenClimb
I’ve commented to a couple of my contemporaries lately that I’m amazed at how my “pilot” job has evolved at F9.
These days, I spend about 5% of my mental energy flying the plane with the rest being spent trying to keep this ongoing dumpster fire of an operation from causing death and devastation.
On nearly every leg, I find myself resisting outward pressures to ignore significant deficiencies just to keep the operation moving. I find it ironic that our most recent FOM modification requires that we discuss “threats” to the operation when the operation itself (and the enormous untrained change in SOPs via the aforementioned FOM revision) are almost always the biggest threats we’ll encounter.
I consider myself fortunate to have had nearly 8000 hours of rightseat F9 Airbus time before I upgraded a little over 4 years ago. I also appreciate the fact that many (most) of the FO’s that I flew with when I first upgraded were also very experienced in the Airbus.
What concerns me now is that we’ve got new captains who have minimal time in the Airbus combined with minimal time in the F9 system who are facing the most dorked up operation anyone can fathom... who will now be paired with new FOs who may have zero or almost zero 121 time or jet time.
This isn’t a dig against the new guys. Everyone was once inexperienced. It’s not their fault. It also doesn’t change the facts... they’re inexperienced. The reason we’re contemplating hiring inexperienced folks is that anyone with any experience at all won’t come to work for this ****hole at the wages we’re offering.
If safety really was even in the top 5 on our corporate priority list, we’d raise wages to attract appropriately experienced pilots.
Flame suit on...
These days, I spend about 5% of my mental energy flying the plane with the rest being spent trying to keep this ongoing dumpster fire of an operation from causing death and devastation.
On nearly every leg, I find myself resisting outward pressures to ignore significant deficiencies just to keep the operation moving. I find it ironic that our most recent FOM modification requires that we discuss “threats” to the operation when the operation itself (and the enormous untrained change in SOPs via the aforementioned FOM revision) are almost always the biggest threats we’ll encounter.
I consider myself fortunate to have had nearly 8000 hours of rightseat F9 Airbus time before I upgraded a little over 4 years ago. I also appreciate the fact that many (most) of the FO’s that I flew with when I first upgraded were also very experienced in the Airbus.
What concerns me now is that we’ve got new captains who have minimal time in the Airbus combined with minimal time in the F9 system who are facing the most dorked up operation anyone can fathom... who will now be paired with new FOs who may have zero or almost zero 121 time or jet time.
This isn’t a dig against the new guys. Everyone was once inexperienced. It’s not their fault. It also doesn’t change the facts... they’re inexperienced. The reason we’re contemplating hiring inexperienced folks is that anyone with any experience at all won’t come to work for this ****hole at the wages we’re offering.
If safety really was even in the top 5 on our corporate priority list, we’d raise wages to attract appropriately experienced pilots.
Flame suit on...
09-16-2018, 05:51 PM
#22
Banned
Joined APC: Jul 2015
Posts: 775
Originally Posted by OpenClimb
That’s very profound. Yoda, you are.
09-18-2018, 07:53 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 196
Originally Posted by Super EZ E
The question is why are you still there young Jedi?? Battered Wife Syndrome? If you can't figure it out then you get what you deserve... Trust me that's what Frankie tells himself about his employees. Learn self respect!!
Why is he still there? Why did you stay at Spirit through the negotiations and lawsuit against the pilots? Do you have "self respect?" Probably because you have a family and they depend on a paycheck, as does this guy. Its very hypocritical to say something like you did, while walking in your bright yellow shoes. You have less time at Spirit than this guy does at Frontier, why didn't you leave Spirit as a junior FO and seeing how our negotiations began and dragged on?
Franke would love guys to leave, replace them with cheaper labor. Resolve is staying unified and working towards an ultimate, and inevitable, contract.
09-18-2018, 08:32 AM
#24
Banned
Joined APC: Aug 2018
Posts: 330
Originally Posted by Ducttape
This is out of line, in my opinion.
Why is he still there? Why did you stay at Spirit through the negotiations and lawsuit against the pilots? Do you have "self respect?" Probably because you have a family and they depend on a paycheck, as does this guy. Its very hypocritical to say something like you did, while walking in your bright yellow shoes. You have less time at Spirit than this guy does at Frontier, why didn't you leave Spirit as a junior FO and seeing how our negotiations began and dragged on?
Franke would love guys to leave, replace them with cheaper labor. Resolve is staying unified and working towards an ultimate, and inevitable, contract.
Why is he still there? Why did you stay at Spirit through the negotiations and lawsuit against the pilots? Do you have "self respect?" Probably because you have a family and they depend on a paycheck, as does this guy. Its very hypocritical to say something like you did, while walking in your bright yellow shoes. You have less time at Spirit than this guy does at Frontier, why didn't you leave Spirit as a junior FO and seeing how our negotiations began and dragged on?
Franke would love guys to leave, replace them with cheaper labor. Resolve is staying unified and working towards an ultimate, and inevitable, contract.
09-18-2018, 09:59 AM
#25
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,504
Originally Posted by OpenClimb
I’ve commented to a couple of my contemporaries lately that I’m amazed at how my “pilot” job has evolved at F9.
These days, I spend about 5% of my mental energy flying the plane with the rest being spent trying to keep this ongoing dumpster fire of an operation from causing death and devastation.
On nearly every leg, I find myself resisting outward pressures to ignore significant deficiencies just to keep the operation moving. I find it ironic that our most recent FOM modification requires that we discuss “threats” to the operation when the operation itself (and the enormous untrained change in SOPs via the aforementioned FOM revision) are almost always the biggest threats we’ll encounter.
I consider myself fortunate to have had nearly 8000 hours of rightseat F9 Airbus time before I upgraded a little over 4 years ago. I also appreciate the fact that many (most) of the FO’s that I flew with when I first upgraded were also very experienced in the Airbus.
What concerns me now is that we’ve got new captains who have minimal time in the Airbus combined with minimal time in the F9 system who are facing the most dorked up operation anyone can fathom... who will now be paired with new FOs who may have zero or almost zero 121 time or jet time.
This isn’t a dig against the new guys. Everyone was once inexperienced. It’s not their fault. It also doesn’t change the facts... they’re inexperienced. The reason we’re contemplating hiring inexperienced folks is that anyone with any experience at all won’t come to work for this ****hole at the wages we’re offering.
If safety really was even in the top 5 on our corporate priority list, we’d raise wages to attract appropriately experienced pilots.
Flame suit on...
These days, I spend about 5% of my mental energy flying the plane with the rest being spent trying to keep this ongoing dumpster fire of an operation from causing death and devastation.
On nearly every leg, I find myself resisting outward pressures to ignore significant deficiencies just to keep the operation moving. I find it ironic that our most recent FOM modification requires that we discuss “threats” to the operation when the operation itself (and the enormous untrained change in SOPs via the aforementioned FOM revision) are almost always the biggest threats we’ll encounter.
I consider myself fortunate to have had nearly 8000 hours of rightseat F9 Airbus time before I upgraded a little over 4 years ago. I also appreciate the fact that many (most) of the FO’s that I flew with when I first upgraded were also very experienced in the Airbus.
What concerns me now is that we’ve got new captains who have minimal time in the Airbus combined with minimal time in the F9 system who are facing the most dorked up operation anyone can fathom... who will now be paired with new FOs who may have zero or almost zero 121 time or jet time.
This isn’t a dig against the new guys. Everyone was once inexperienced. It’s not their fault. It also doesn’t change the facts... they’re inexperienced. The reason we’re contemplating hiring inexperienced folks is that anyone with any experience at all won’t come to work for this ****hole at the wages we’re offering.
If safety really was even in the top 5 on our corporate priority list, we’d raise wages to attract appropriately experienced pilots.
Flame suit on...
One has to wonder, were such a mishap to happen at Frontier though, how much of the blame would be attributed - rightly or wrongly - to the NMB simply being negligent in doing their job. Quite a bit more than many on the NMB think, would be my guess. Nor would Frontier as a company necessarily survive. Not with postings such as the above serving as admissions against interest for any civil actions.
It seems to me both management and the NMB are playing with fire.
Last edited by Excargodog; 09-18-2018 at 10:26 AM.
09-18-2018, 03:05 PM
#28
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 514
Originally Posted by F9pilot15
Correct. All blame would fall on the company. It’s like running a low income rental house and not repairing the gas leak because your to cheap to fix it.
09-19-2018, 05:41 AM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2016
Position: FO
Posts: 793
Originally Posted by Ducttape
This is out of line, in my opinion.
Why is he still there? Why did you stay at Spirit through the negotiations and lawsuit against the pilots? Do you have "self respect?" Probably because you have a family and they depend on a paycheck, as does this guy. Its very hypocritical to say something like you did, while walking in your bright yellow shoes. You have less time at Spirit than this guy does at Frontier, why didn't you leave Spirit as a junior FO and seeing how our negotiations began and dragged on?
Franke would love guys to leave, replace them with cheaper labor. Resolve is staying unified and working towards an ultimate, and inevitable, contract.
Why is he still there? Why did you stay at Spirit through the negotiations and lawsuit against the pilots? Do you have "self respect?" Probably because you have a family and they depend on a paycheck, as does this guy. Its very hypocritical to say something like you did, while walking in your bright yellow shoes. You have less time at Spirit than this guy does at Frontier, why didn't you leave Spirit as a junior FO and seeing how our negotiations began and dragged on?
Franke would love guys to leave, replace them with cheaper labor. Resolve is staying unified and working towards an ultimate, and inevitable, contract.
Valid and thoughtful points made. This is very encouraging to read,. Nice to read posts on from someone with good light on their head. Vs the very grumpy and arrogant responses & bickering I read from the Spirit forum folks. Not as terrible of a read or as terrible a quality of individuals here than the Spirit forum comes off to be. Just my personal observation and opinion. Y’all are def not as bad.
I’m highly positive one way or the other, things will work out great for the Frontier Pilot group.
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