Furlough
09-30-2020, 03:24 PM
#1061
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2012
Position: Happy
Posts: 683
No matter what the keyboard warriors on here say his responsibility should always be with his family first. Period end of story.
Everyone their story is different. Judging your colleagues often says more about your persona than it does about the person you are pointing your fingers at.
For me it’s easy to say I only work my line till the last person is back. I can afford it. That’s reality. For me it was easy during our negotiations to say I only work my line. I could afford it. For me it was easy to vote no. I could afford it especially with 30+ years left and realizing that was probably the last time we would see an environment we where in then where everyone was hiring for a long time
And quick question to my friend on the previous page, really at 250k / year you have to pick up above 75 hours to make it work ? Alright then .. Which, not to contradict myself here but I would hope that for any second year FO till our 25+ year Captains their 6 figure salaries are sufficient.
So though I also believe that morally the above decisions are the right ones, it becomes a lot easier to be able to do all that if you can. I see a lot of people here in my position judging their colleagues who are more than likely not in the same position. And yes morally I agree which is why I’ll only work my line till either I get furloughed or we bring all our friends back. But till then I can not point my finger at people as I simply don’t know enough about their situation.
if you really want things done contact your reps with your proposals. See how far you get and who knows if it’s popular enough we all get to vote on it. But being an internet tough guy here does little.
Everyone their story is different. Judging your colleagues often says more about your persona than it does about the person you are pointing your fingers at.
For me it’s easy to say I only work my line till the last person is back. I can afford it. That’s reality. For me it was easy during our negotiations to say I only work my line. I could afford it. For me it was easy to vote no. I could afford it especially with 30+ years left and realizing that was probably the last time we would see an environment we where in then where everyone was hiring for a long time
And quick question to my friend on the previous page, really at 250k / year you have to pick up above 75 hours to make it work ? Alright then .. Which, not to contradict myself here but I would hope that for any second year FO till our 25+ year Captains their 6 figure salaries are sufficient.
So though I also believe that morally the above decisions are the right ones, it becomes a lot easier to be able to do all that if you can. I see a lot of people here in my position judging their colleagues who are more than likely not in the same position. And yes morally I agree which is why I’ll only work my line till either I get furloughed or we bring all our friends back. But till then I can not point my finger at people as I simply don’t know enough about their situation.
if you really want things done contact your reps with your proposals. See how far you get and who knows if it’s popular enough we all get to vote on it. But being an internet tough guy here does little.
09-30-2020, 03:31 PM
#1062
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: El Capitan de Airbii
Posts: 279
Originally Posted by singlepilot
I’ve got a classmate who is genuinely concerned.
He took every 50 hour cola he could because his wife HAD a solid job.
They just purchased a home in base in February and have 2 kids under age 4.
His wife got laid off 2 weeks ago from her $150k a year job with little prospects of finding another one.
He now needs to fly 85 hours a month just to cover the bills.
Is it fair someone like this get chastised by the pilot group? This does not need to turn into a lecture on personal finance.
You never know what someone is going through back home.
I personally choose to just fly 70-80 hour lines, however I’m not going to witch hunt pilots who choose to do more.
He took every 50 hour cola he could because his wife HAD a solid job.
They just purchased a home in base in February and have 2 kids under age 4.
His wife got laid off 2 weeks ago from her $150k a year job with little prospects of finding another one.
He now needs to fly 85 hours a month just to cover the bills.
Is it fair someone like this get chastised by the pilot group? This does not need to turn into a lecture on personal finance.
You never know what someone is going through back home.
I personally choose to just fly 70-80 hour lines, however I’m not going to witch hunt pilots who choose to do more.
And I have friends that are 2nd year FO’s that are the only source of income for their family of 4 and are flirting with ELS lines. You might say they are “concerned” a bit too.
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09-30-2020, 04:28 PM
#1063
On Reserve
Joined APC: Aug 2020
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by singlepilot
I’ve got a classmate who is genuinely concerned.
He took every 50 hour cola he could because his wife HAD a solid job.
They just purchased a home in base in February and have 2 kids under age 4.
His wife got laid off 2 weeks ago from her $150k a year job with little prospects of finding another one.
He now needs to fly 85 hours a month just to cover the bills.
Is it fair someone like this get chastised by the pilot group? This does not need to turn into a lecture on personal finance.
You never know what someone is going through back home.
I personally choose to just fly 70-80 hour lines, however I’m not going to witch hunt pilots who choose to do more.
He took every 50 hour cola he could because his wife HAD a solid job.
They just purchased a home in base in February and have 2 kids under age 4.
His wife got laid off 2 weeks ago from her $150k a year job with little prospects of finding another one.
He now needs to fly 85 hours a month just to cover the bills.
Is it fair someone like this get chastised by the pilot group? This does not need to turn into a lecture on personal finance.
You never know what someone is going through back home.
I personally choose to just fly 70-80 hour lines, however I’m not going to witch hunt pilots who choose to do more.
The whole setup is skewed towards keeping the well paid comfortable at the expense of the ones that really need the income for survival.
10-03-2020, 01:01 PM
#1066
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2010
Position: Airbus (the wide ones)
Posts: 106
Originally Posted by I like BIG Bus
I’ve got some food for thought. We all know how I feel about picking up excessive open time in certain situations. The way that this furlough relief was negotiated though, was to reduce the captain and FO levels to the lowest levels through the Cola35 offers. That of course was based on the historic data of people picking up open time. The fact is, way more captains are requesting and receiving the colas. So much so that a lot are being denied. Due to the way this deal is structured you are actually going to increase the number of cola0s if trips cannot get covered on the captain side. Since it’s a one for one to keep people off the cola0, if trips get cancelled due to captain availability, they will just lower the number of captains awarded the cola35 and increase the number of cola0. Therefore as much as it kills me to say, because FOs can’t pick up captain trips, I don’t think I have a big problem with captains picking up open time. Especially if that would allow someone to take a future cola35 or prepare you for displacement. On the FO side, it gets more complicated. There, the min credit no open time makes sense due to the cola0 pick up. Am I way off base here?
Long story short, Captains not picking up the flying only takes money out of the hand of the line holders and hurts reserves by making them cover it for min guarantee.
10-03-2020, 02:31 PM
#1067
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 465
Originally Posted by doz4dllrs
As much as it sucks, Captains are in a different silo with regard to picking up open time than FO's are. The flying is going to get done one way or another by the current Captains and the only thing that is left to decide is whether it is going to be flown by line holders or reserves. If line holders refuse to pickup the time the reserves are going to be assigned the flying and only make their 75 hour monthly guarantee. If the line-holders pick it all up the reserves get a break and sit at home and the line-holders make extra money. Collectively speaking the latter is the better option for the Captains.
Long story short, Captains not picking up the flying only takes money out of the hand of the line holders and hurts reserves by making them cover it for min guarantee.
Long story short, Captains not picking up the flying only takes money out of the hand of the line holders and hurts reserves by making them cover it for min guarantee.
10-03-2020, 05:51 PM
#1068
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,361
Originally Posted by Gary et al
Exactly how it should be in normal times, but the company is bleeding millions right now. Assigning flying to reserves helps the company save that little bit more.
The most efficient the company can be is to have each pilot (including reserves) fly up to but not exceed 75 hours. However, they are contractually obligated to have certain average line values depending on the # of flight hours/lines. That causes some line holders to have more than 82 hours during certain months. I'm sure that was probably the first thing the company asked for a concession on.
Latest RUMINT is that the company is losing about $1 mil per day but is steadily but slowly improving.
10-03-2020, 07:01 PM
#1069
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 465
Originally Posted by dracir1
Yes and no. Or more - it depends.
The most efficient the company can be is to have each pilot (including reserves) fly up to but not exceed 75 hours. However, they are contractually obligated to have certain average line values depending on the # of flight hours/lines. That causes some line holders to have more than 82 hours during certain months. I'm sure that was probably the first thing the company asked for a concession on.
The most efficient the company can be is to have each pilot (including reserves) fly up to but not exceed 75 hours. However, they are contractually obligated to have certain average line values depending on the # of flight hours/lines. That causes some line holders to have more than 82 hours during certain months. I'm sure that was probably the first thing the company asked for a concession on.
10-03-2020, 07:16 PM
#1070
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2012
Posts: 2,110
Originally Posted by dracir1
Yes and no. Or more - it depends.
The most efficient the company can be is to have each pilot (including reserves) fly up to but not exceed 75 hours. However, they are contractually obligated to have certain average line values depending on the # of flight hours/lines. That causes some line holders to have more than 82 hours during certain months. I'm sure that was probably the first thing the company asked for a concession on.
Latest RUMINT is that the company is losing about $1 mil per day but is steadily but slowly improving.
The most efficient the company can be is to have each pilot (including reserves) fly up to but not exceed 75 hours. However, they are contractually obligated to have certain average line values depending on the # of flight hours/lines. That causes some line holders to have more than 82 hours during certain months. I'm sure that was probably the first thing the company asked for a concession on.
Latest RUMINT is that the company is losing about $1 mil per day but is steadily but slowly improving.
Last edited by fcoolaiddrinker; 10-03-2020 at 07:49 PM.
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