F9 vs WN
01-28-2023, 12:43 PM
#41
Fly or Die
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by Aero1900
Southwest has finally fallen from grace. Turned against their own employees and operationally fallen to sh|t and now you guys want jobs there?!
If you're senior to me, you should definitely go
If you're senior to me, you should definitely go
I don’t have an offer at either place at the moment, but I’ll be applying to both sooner than later and may have a dilemma, so I watch both airlines closely.
01-28-2023, 03:43 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,394
Originally Posted by ESQ702
Well, can F9’s management be trusted much more than WN’s at the moment? That’s the dilemma I feel when I think about picking one over the other. BB seems so hostile to pilots and F9 seems a whole cycle behind WN and the other majors, pay-wise. Also, I’m in LAS, so I think the base is relatively attainable at both shops.
I don’t have an offer at either place at the moment, but I’ll be applying to both sooner than later and may have a dilemma, so I watch both airlines closely.
I don’t have an offer at either place at the moment, but I’ll be applying to both sooner than later and may have a dilemma, so I watch both airlines closely.
01-29-2023, 01:38 AM
#43
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2018
Position: 135 F/O
Posts: 60
Originally Posted by FlyinRyan95B
BufordT Justice , I'm at about 4500 TT, 2000 part 121 turbine and the 350 PIC under 121. I've been hearing the 5000 hour mark mentioned for both UA and WN so hopefully a call is right around the corner especially once I get the internal LOR I have uploaded
01-29-2023, 05:00 AM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2022
Posts: 241
Originally Posted by FlyinRyan95B
I've hemmed and hawed about whether I should make this post or whether to make a decision on my own, whether to post this in the F9 or the WN forum, and how exactly to ask this. I have class dates for both airlines for late February and it's time to make a decision. When I received the offer from WN I thought it would be an easy decision but in the process of exercising due diligence the questions of overall compensation in short and longer term scenarios, QOL, and which airline could get me to United faster have given me pause. I’ll try not to put an excess of data in the initial post, so here are some bullet points.
Has anyone here at F9 actually chosen it over WN?
- WN contract negotiations are making it tough for me to make an informed decision about relative pay, but the difference in upgrade time makes F9 look very competitive if I stay 3-5 years. The sign on bonus… can’t decide how I feel about that.
- I am short on PIC time at 350 hrs. Faster upgrade could get me an interview at UA quicker. On the other hand they might never call either way.
- I know I shouldn’t look too hard at bases, but central FL and bay area CA basing is important. WN has super senior MCO CA base but then apparently F9 FL bases aren’t necessarily that junior either with PHX and LAS in the mix. I’m actually looking at PHX in the medium term time frame but I don’t really want to get stuck there right out of training.
- Then there is culture, public perception (meltdowns, govt fines) performance metrics, and other things hard to measure, and I don’t have a crystal ball... Not a calibrated one anyway.
Has anyone here at F9 actually chosen it over WN?
01-29-2023, 05:32 AM
#46
Fly or Die
Joined APC: Jan 2019
Posts: 484
Originally Posted by Aero1900
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying Frontier management is better than Southwest. But, would I give up seniority at Frontier to go to Southwest? No.
01-29-2023, 06:18 AM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2012
Position: 1900D CA
Posts: 3,394
Originally Posted by ESQ702
Fair enough, I can’t argue with that, but would you pick F9 over WN knowing what you know now of F9 if you had two offers on the table and weren’t at either shop currently?
10 year upgrade into a 737 vs sub 4 year upgrade in an Airbus. I might pick Frontier
01-29-2023, 06:23 AM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2021
Position: A320 FO
Posts: 655
Originally Posted by ESQ702
Fair enough, I can’t argue with that, but would you pick F9 over WN knowing what you know now of F9 if you had two offers on the table and weren’t at either shop currently?
01-29-2023, 07:12 AM
#49
Almost there
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 1,093
Originally Posted by ESQ702
Fair enough, I can’t argue with that, but would you pick F9 over WN knowing what you know now of F9 if you had two offers on the table and weren’t at either shop currently?
F9 is faster seniority progression and faster upgrade with less guarantee in the long term.
Contract is tough to say. Could be quick, could be a wait. Could be be the same as our peers, could be worse. Hopefully the best but time will tell.
I expect something big will happen within the industry this year to help with pilot hiring attrition similar to what we saw with JetBlue Spirit. Alaska, Hawaiian, SWA, Frontier, Allegiant, Sun Country, Breeze, Avelo, and every regional need a lot of the pilots that are being sucked up into the legacy vacuum. Something will change. Mergers, acquisitions, and failures are all likely at this point. So what’s your risk tolerance?
