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Quote:

Originally Posted by BagMan (Post 3951618)

What you don't have is the global reach, the massive credit card deals and the higher end class of service that the big three have. They are not your peers.

Neither does Southwest (outside of the massive CC deals which they do have). And they make more than everyone. SW isn't our peer? Is Jet Blue?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BagMan (Post 3951618)

And most certainly, the NMB will NEVER look at a 321 as a pay comparative to a wide-body, no matter how many bodies you put in that 321. They never have and they never will."

I had no Idea the Mediators has so much free time they would come on APC and tell us all how it is. Unless of course YOUR NOT MEDIATORS WITH THE NMB ,and are in fact a bunch of keyboard general's so **** sure in your own view of things that you can't see any other way things might work out.

Mediating a contract like this is no easy task. the best out come from the Mediators perspective is if both sides walk away angry. The Idea of what fair pay is incredibly hard to quantify. The pay rates for various professions are widely variable (know any Teachers with Masters degrees that earn 40K/yr?)

VERY true. You are worth what you can negotiate. Is it a battle to get higher rates? Of course. But you need the pilot force that's willing to strike (or whatever the NMB lets us do). No votes are needed to see what that is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BagMan (Post 3951618)

That said I am not sure what your advocating for. If we ratified a garbage contract I wouldn't be so sure our low rates wouldn't affect yours in mediation because while you might not think the sword cuts this way. I would bet it cuts the other way when/if your airline drags you into mediation trying to squeeze a little more "competitive advantage " out of the pilot group because say there is an economic downturn. You will be surprised how fast things like number of seats per plane matter and how little traction premium seating will get when the Mediator is "trying to balance things out" (Make no one happy)

We should all be advocating to make the Mediators job as easy as possible ALL A320 pilots should earn the same base rate. Under paying your employees by 50% is and will always be a competitive advantage. If it goes for to long your employers might start looking for ways to balance it out.

Yes, and yes. I'm advocating for myself, my fellow pilots at F9 and the industry in general. There's NO WAY anyone can convince me that this company can't find a way to make $ while paying us industry rates. The thought process is preposterous. It may not be BB, but SOMEONE (probably more than a few people) can. No airline can (nor should) survive with having to pay it's labor less. That strategy just isn't viable long term in ANY business. I can't even believe this needs to be mentioned...

If we don't get industry rates it's because we as a pilot force weren't strong enough to demand it. I'd rather this company go out of business than to accept less. If either of those look likely, I will take my retro check and leave. The Big 3 are hiring again - maybe for a short while and maybe longer. Sooner or later they'll have to again and again and again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dracir1 (Post 3953190)

Neither does Southwest (outside of the massive CC deals which they do have). And they make more than everyone. SW isn't our peer? Is Jet Blue?

You may want to check financials before you make statements like that. SWA USED to make more than others. Hasn’t been that way for a while and definitely not post COVID. Currently it’s DAL/UA making lots and everyone else making small profits of the big 4.

I do agree y’all should be seeking industry average rates for A321 on par with the big 4 NB rates. I hope you get it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by UALinIAH (Post 3953252)

By make more I meant the PILOT rate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dracir1 (Post 3953323)

By make more I meant the PILOT rate.

Ah, ok I took your statement wrong. I agree they probably make the most on average of all NB pilots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by UALinIAH (Post 3953325)

Ah, ok I took your statement wrong. I agree they probably make the most on average of all NB pilots.

All good.

But to that point, SWA has been losing money (and it wasn't just the Maxxes). They are changing their model. The are having to adapt. The one thing they're not talking about is concessions. They still pay more than everyone else.

And, I'd be surprised if they didn't start profiting more given that everyone is hiring now w/ the expectation of more demand.

Enough of the BS 10 hr 3 days SDT 5 hr and the NTR crap……
5hr min CALANDER day

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReserveCA (Post 3959702)

Enough of the BS 10 hr 3 days SDT 5 hr and the NTR crap……
5hr min CALANDER day

Yeah, they are making out with so much money because of those.. or 16hr 4 days, My schedule would be like 100hrs instead of 72hrs of credit if we had min DAY.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ReserveCA (Post 3959702)

Enough of the BS 10 hr 3 days SDT 5 hr and the NTR crap……
5hr min CALANDER day

To any first airline F9 pilots reading this. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. Having to do a 3 day worth 10 hours is disrespectful of our time and min calendar day will fix this issue.

Quote:

Originally Posted by GenericPilot (Post 3959759)

To any first airline F9 pilots reading this. THIS IS NOT NORMAL. Having to do a 3 day worth 10 hours is disrespectful of our time and min calendar day will fix this issue.

Be careful. Crazy talk like that will bankrupt the airline. Just like Spirit.

So just do your 10 hour 3 day and be happy you get to fly a jet.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LinaPeru (Post 3959769)

Be careful. Crazy talk like that will bankrupt the airline. Just like Spirit.

So just do your 10 hour 3 day and be happy you get to fly a jet.

Shiny.

You get to for a shiny jet.