[QUOTE=dracir1;3950713]My answer to the mediator would be "We fly A320/21s with 240 seats from NYC to LAX, SJU to LGA and ATL to SFO. We fly around more people than some UA/AA/DL widebodies. We're a national airline w/ long haul and short haul capabilities and routes. If anything, our peer group is any 73/321 domestic only flyer who has the ability to carry 240 pax." This would be my justification for using their 76/330 pay rates as a STARTING play/QUOTE]

And the mediator would die laughing. AA flew an A321T with 102 pax. Ten first , twenty business, seventy economy. Pretty sure the yield was higher than what you get with 240. Also any WB has cargo.

[QUOTE=symbian simian;3951587][QUOTE=dracir1;3950713]My answer to the mediator would be "We fly A320/21s with 240 seats from NYC to LAX, SJU to LGA and ATL to SFO. We fly around more people than some UA/AA/DL widebodies. We're a national airline w/ long haul and short haul capabilities and routes. If anything, our peer group is any 73/321 domestic only flyer who has the ability to carry 240 pax." This would be my justification for using their 76/330 pay rates as a STARTING play/QUOTE]

[QUOTE "And the mediator would die laughing. AA flew an A321T with 102 pax. Ten first , twenty business, seventy economy. Pretty sure the yield was higher than what you get with 240. Also any WB has cargo./QUOTE]

What you don't have is the global reach, the massive credit card deals and the higher end class of service that the big three have. They are not your peers.

And most certainly, the NMB will NEVER look at a 321 as a pay comparative to a wide-body, no matter how many bodies you put in that 321. They never have and they never will."

I had no Idea the Mediators has so much free time they would come on APC and tell us all how it is. Unless of course YOUR NOT MEDIATORS WITH THE NMB ,and are in fact a bunch of keyboard general's so **** sure in your own view of things that you can't see any other way things might work out.

Mediating a contract like this is no easy task. the best out come from the Mediators perspective is if both sides walk away angry. The Idea of what fair pay is incredibly hard to quantify. The pay rates for various professions are widely variable (know any Teachers with Masters degrees that earn 40K/yr?)

What I can say is our company with the cadet program is spending over 100k on training per cadet. on top of 100K for the first year. with most bouncing within 3 years. Attrition this high is one of the reasons we are not profitable. That is just one, Dayturns, mini bases ,and the over staffing required to run those plays. It's not easy for a mediator to decide which metrics to use. Likely it will fall to what makes no side happy.

That said I am not sure what your advocating for. If we ratified a garbage contract I wouldn't be so sure our low rates wouldn't affect yours in mediation because while you might not think the sword cuts this way. I would bet it cuts the other way when/if your airline drags you into mediation trying to squeeze a little more "competitive advantage " out of the pilot group because say there is an economic downturn. You will be surprised how fast things like number of seats per plane matter and how little traction premium seating will get when the Mediator is "trying to balance things out" (Make no one happy)

We should all be advocating to make the Mediators job as easy as possible ALL A320 pilots should earn the same base rate. Under paying your employees by 50% is and will always be a competitive advantage. If it goes for to long your employers might start looking for ways to balance it out.

Long haul = augmented crews
Just because I flew my 321 from BOS-LAX doesn’t mean it’s long haul, it’s just a long flight.

I think this discussion is silly. Everyone who flies an A-320 in the US, regardless of the airline they fly for (but specially if you are a ALPA pilot), should be interested in Frontier Pilots achieving the same rates as everyone else. It is not good to have one pilot group significantly below the rest. Instead of having ego driven ****ing contests, why don’t you all cheer this group and hope we all come in line with everyone?

People will insist that their legacy is better and the ulccs deserve less... Just how it is.

Somehow, because we are at a ULCC, we are less of pilots, as shown by the way legacy pilots stick their noses up at us in the airports. (maybe its just angry triangle pilots)

When NK bots in their concession package we R helically wrapped around an incline plane…….

They're all friendly when they need that jump seat.

Kinda funny...I mean that is IF they even come up and say hi...

Then again only one Air Line seems to forget to do that, everyone else has been awesome.

I think JFK-LHR on a widebody is generally considered "long haul", even though it can be done without augmenting.

I had one get off, stare at me and not even thank me for the ride home. I was a little late showing and he never talked to me, he talked to my FO, then asked our FAs if I was going to show and he couldnt fly this plane because he flies Boeings.....

/yawn