Our planes are not shiny…costs too much money in the eyes of the company to clean them and maintain them properly. Why would they care for a plane that they lease? That’s the way they treat our fleet. Even the new ones look beat, fast! I’d be curious to know if the extra fuel cost from increased drag from grease actually nets zero, or costs the company more money than the cost of cleaning them. Same old jump over a dollar to save a penny logic.

 

FORCE productivity or make them go under!

 

You don't have trip rigs? You can call it a 3 day all day, but it is less than 35 hours TAFB. So if it started Monday morning at 6am and ended Tuesday at 5pm it would be fine if it paid 10 hours? Even if you now have to commute in day before and pay for the hotel? You have a trip that is commutable on both ends. If you get calendar day, you will work calendar day. No more 11pm start, 10am finish, they are paying for the whole day, they will use you the whole day. Say goodbye to being able to commute on both ends. If it is the red eyes you don't want, get a better override. If you don't make enough money get a higher rate. Asking for calendar day and thinking the trips will stay the same? Priceless. Stop looking at the calendar, and look at TAFB. This a 24/7 job, not 9/5.

You are literally saying that starting work 1 minute after midnight should pay the same as starting work 23 hours and 58 minutes later at 1 minute before the next midnight. Think about that.

 

Right. I provided an actual example where they just changed a trip to make it harder, for the same pay, and less commutable but it now fit the calendar day pay criteria. My point was not well received and this still polls highly as a want in the pilot group. It’s one of our tops asks.

 

I commuted to red eyes at NK for over a decade. Did I love it? NO. But having no nights in a hotel I paid for helped. Almost all the LAS guys were complaining about the same thing. And I would show them the BNA/IAH 2 day. Show at 00:10, long layover, fly back. Exactly the same as all the other "3" day trips that started 30 minutes earlier. #optimizer

 

I think you should preface this with the fact that you are now at an airline that does in fact have a calendar day min. The other fact is not everyone commutes, and while TAFB is nuanced when compared to calendar day, the majority of the industry has a calendar day min AND a TAFB rig.

Will a pairing builder build to reduce costs, sure, but you are in the very very extreme minority of pilots that does a 22:00 show and 10:00 release 3 day and thinks that’s the same as doing a 2 day during normal hours with the same TAFB. They are not the same. You can appreciate that now that you live in base. Enjoy the quality CBA you now work under.

 

We have trips that start at 8am or 8pm, then one leg or a few legs, sit for 27-35hrs, then fly one leg or a few legs home the 3rd day and credit 10hrs or maybe 12hrs. You can't pick up any other trips on those days unless they are redeyes or give you the rest required. It is a 3 day. it should be 5:15 min day.

If I go somewhere one day at 7pm, then spend 30hrs in a hotel the 2nd day, then fly one leg at 7am home, that is a 3 day. I should get 15hrs minimum. Ideally, 15h45min.

 

The intended consequence of daily min is to get rid of 24+ hour layovers. Of course most of those will disappear. That's an intended consequence and if the trips become more productive as a result, that's acceptable. Commutability lost? I'd rather that than what we currently have. Commute friendly schedules at least in my situations where I've had to commute, can be tiring and make for a really long first & last day.

I don't disagree however that we should always look at the results of any added or altered language, but min daily is a top ask for a reason. 50 hour Detroit layovers? Really? lol

 

We should still have some 20+hr layovers... There is always a middle ground. There should be a little something for everyone, but defeinitely not a majority of a base's trips 10-13hr 3 days with 25+hr layovers.

 

Okay so let’s say it’s a 10pm start to Detroit currently. Sit for 24 and fly back on day three in the morning. Now it’s just a 00:01 start, shortened rest by 3 hours, same return. What was achieved?