Frontier Hiring.
08-26-2014, 09:01 AM
#1051
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Posts: 228
Originally Posted by Onedayatatimee
I think a few pages back and about a week ago the rumor was classes probably one a month November through next spring. Is that pretty accurate info? (subject to change). Have they already interviewed for the November class?
Don't know about new hire classes, but the mid September upgrade class is the last for the year. (subject to change of course)
08-26-2014, 08:19 PM
#1054
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by sulkair
So Indigo has successfully purchased, transformed and sold at least a handful of airlines around the world, correct?
Surely there is an aviation financial buff out there that has an understanding of how they did this each time. That person I am not.
Anyone know? Care to share? Can we reverse engineer a likely playbook?
Surely there is an aviation financial buff out there that has an understanding of how they did this each time. That person I am not.
Anyone know? Care to share? Can we reverse engineer a likely playbook?
Spirit was a win.
Wizzair was a failed IPO.
Tigerair is down -23% YOY, -43% two year and -75% five year.
Private Equity will establish a cost center where it needs a cost center and create a "win" where it needs a win. You can't reverse engineer this bucket of money. With that being said, if you invested in all three and expected a return on your investment I would imagine you would be looking for a win by this point. Is F9 that win? That remains to be seen. The current management behavior suggests no.
08-27-2014, 09:10 AM
#1057
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by Barley
What about management behavior suggests no?
"In fact, a plausible case can be made that intangible considerations of prestige and status played a powerful role in motivating top airline executives like Ferris, Lorenzo, and later, Carl Icahn, the corporate raider and financial manipulator who would seizeTWA in 1986.Perhaps their drive to cut pilot salaries sprang from competitive urges run amok, a kind of antilabor feeding frenzy among boardroom sharks.To be able to walk into the exclusive forums where these top CEOs rubbed elbows, where they could revel in their colleagues’approval (or envy) of the way they had stood tall against labor,particularly the haughty pilots, might explain a lot. Certainly, rational economic analysis cannot entirely explain the economic damage that Lorenzo and Ferris did to ALPA, their airlines, and ultimately themselves.Answers might be available in the field of abnormal psychology, however."
Frontier, particularly Flight Ops (scheduling, payroll) have modified the way they interpret several sections of our CBA. They creatively reassign pilots and then reduce their pay for the reassignments. Imagine having to work on a day off for free or for a reduced pay rate, how would this make you feel? This has been going on for a short period of time but the effects have been extreme. Frontier used to have one of the most productive pilot groups in the industry (hours flown per pilot). The current regime is training pilots to fly less due to the nickel and dime atmosphere. Now pilots fly less and sick calls have spiked (shocker) due to inefficient pairings. The leadership is scratching their heads with one hand and finger pointing with the other.
They say our CBA is the problem. The same CBA that has been in effect since 2007 (with BK concession pay rates) and the same CBA that was extended twice, once in 2008 and once in 2011!!!
Oil is cheap, profit margins have never been higher. Pilot productivity should be sky high, unfortunately the folks in charge have destroyed the moral of one of the most motivated groups in the industry. One must ask themselves why? They are literally stepping over a dollar to save a penny. It reminds me of a saying..
"Never push a loyal person to the point they no longer give a ****". They did, and now this pilot group no longer gives a ****. Btw, I know this message board is read by a few folks in the GO. I hope they read this, print it, and let it sink in. The sooner the better.
08-27-2014, 12:42 PM
#1058
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,459
Originally Posted by zoooropa
This is a quote from Flying the Line II...
"In fact, a plausible case can be made that intangible considerations of prestige and status played a powerful role in motivating top airline executives like Ferris, Lorenzo, and later, Carl Icahn, the corporate raider and financial manipulator who would seizeTWA in 1986.Perhaps their drive to cut pilot salaries sprang from competitive urges run amok, a kind of antilabor feeding frenzy among boardroom sharks.To be able to walk into the exclusive forums where these top CEOs rubbed elbows, where they could revel in their colleagues’approval (or envy) of the way they had stood tall against labor,particularly the haughty pilots, might explain a lot. Certainly, rational economic analysis cannot entirely explain the economic damage that Lorenzo and Ferris did to ALPA, their airlines, and ultimately themselves.Answers might be available in the field of abnormal psychology, however."
Frontier, particularly Flight Ops (scheduling, payroll) have modified the way they interpret several sections of our CBA. They creatively reassign pilots and then reduce their pay for the reassignments. Imagine having to work on a day off for free or for a reduced pay rate, how would this make you feel? This has been going on for a short period of time but the effects have been extreme. Frontier used to have one of the most productive pilot groups in the industry (hours flown per pilot). The current regime is training pilots to fly less due to the nickel and dime atmosphere. Now pilots fly less and sick calls have spiked (shocker) due to inefficient pairings. The leadership is scratching their heads with one hand and finger pointing with the other.
They say our CBA is the problem. The same CBA that has been in effect since 2007 (with BK concession pay rates) and the same CBA that was extended twice, once in 2008 and once in 2011!!!
Oil is cheap, profit margins have never been higher. Pilot productivity should be sky high, unfortunately the folks in charge have destroyed the moral of one of the most motivated groups in the industry. One must ask themselves why? They are literally stepping over a dollar to save a penny. It reminds me of a saying..
"Never push a loyal person to the point they no longer give a ****". They did, and now this pilot group no longer gives a ****. Btw, I know this message board is read by a few folks in the GO. I hope they read this, print it, and let it sink in. The sooner the better.
"In fact, a plausible case can be made that intangible considerations of prestige and status played a powerful role in motivating top airline executives like Ferris, Lorenzo, and later, Carl Icahn, the corporate raider and financial manipulator who would seizeTWA in 1986.Perhaps their drive to cut pilot salaries sprang from competitive urges run amok, a kind of antilabor feeding frenzy among boardroom sharks.To be able to walk into the exclusive forums where these top CEOs rubbed elbows, where they could revel in their colleagues’approval (or envy) of the way they had stood tall against labor,particularly the haughty pilots, might explain a lot. Certainly, rational economic analysis cannot entirely explain the economic damage that Lorenzo and Ferris did to ALPA, their airlines, and ultimately themselves.Answers might be available in the field of abnormal psychology, however."
Frontier, particularly Flight Ops (scheduling, payroll) have modified the way they interpret several sections of our CBA. They creatively reassign pilots and then reduce their pay for the reassignments. Imagine having to work on a day off for free or for a reduced pay rate, how would this make you feel? This has been going on for a short period of time but the effects have been extreme. Frontier used to have one of the most productive pilot groups in the industry (hours flown per pilot). The current regime is training pilots to fly less due to the nickel and dime atmosphere. Now pilots fly less and sick calls have spiked (shocker) due to inefficient pairings. The leadership is scratching their heads with one hand and finger pointing with the other.
They say our CBA is the problem. The same CBA that has been in effect since 2007 (with BK concession pay rates) and the same CBA that was extended twice, once in 2008 and once in 2011!!!
Oil is cheap, profit margins have never been higher. Pilot productivity should be sky high, unfortunately the folks in charge have destroyed the moral of one of the most motivated groups in the industry. One must ask themselves why? They are literally stepping over a dollar to save a penny. It reminds me of a saying..
"Never push a loyal person to the point they no longer give a ****". They did, and now this pilot group no longer gives a ****. Btw, I know this message board is read by a few folks in the GO. I hope they read this, print it, and let it sink in. The sooner the better.
Weren't we warned, right here in this thread, by a few Spirit pilots, that we were in for the fight of our life? Perhaps what you're referring to Zoo is the opening salvo.
As a pilot group, I suggest we root ourselves in emotionless pragmatism. We're never going to get anywhere trying to convince people that our contract is already good, efficient, and profitable. As if to plead with them please don't mess with a good thing. Of course they're going to mess with it. And whether or not we are loyal or don't give a $***, is the least of their concern.
The idea of companies and employees hugging and kissing all the way to the fortune 500 list went out with the mullet. It's basically a myth, and even if it isn't a myth, then you must admit it is extremely rare, and not remotely ever going to happen here.
Look, this is the jungle! As such, appropriate rules apply. If we don't want to be eaten, I suggest we need to give the Lion a good reason not to attack, and if he does, then give him a reason to be sorry he did. Of course I would never, and do not now condone or propose using any methodology other that proper and legal negotiation/means/leverage.
What I'm saying is this. We've got our FAPA back, now lets get to work. We are our own protectors, not the company. It is in their very nature as businessmen to force every conceivable advantage even to the point of counter-productivity. Lets accept this reality as a given right now so we can get busy playing the strong hand we hold. This isn't about right or wrong, it isn't about whether or not the love affair is over between the company and pilots... Right now, and moving forward, it is about acting with courage and steadfastly refusing to be treated poorly, demanding what is fair, and using every proper tool at our disposal to carve out a prosperous destiny for our families, and this career.
We need to disconnect ourselves from this notion that anyone cares. They don't! But we can care for ourselves.
With the new ancillary fee model, and in the favorable climate the whole industry finds itself currently, there is every reason to believe F9 will be profitable and successful for some time to come. As a pilot group we will need to be smart and strong in order to protect our interests and ensure we get a fair shake.
08-27-2014, 05:52 PM
#1060
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 624
Originally Posted by sulkair
As a pilot group, I suggest we root ourselves in emotionless pragmatism. We're never going to get anywhere trying to convince people that our contract is already good, efficient, and profitable. As if to plead with them please don't mess with a good thing. Of course they're going to mess with it. And whether or not we are loyal or don't give a $***, is the least of their concern.
The idea of companies and employees hugging and kissing all the way to the fortune 500 list went out with the mullet. It's basically a myth, and even if it isn't a myth, then you must admit it is extremely rare, and not remotely ever going to happen here.
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