"BTW did you know that in the UAL contract there is a flowback provision for furloughed pilots into the express side(how be it, not a great one.)"

Where? Do you have the section it is in?

 

see 1-C-1-f and side letter 03-22

 

Let me help y'all steer this conversation in the right direction. Instead of arguing about who counts as an alter-ego and trying to start a jumpseat war, let's brainstorm ways to get things back on track.

First things first: The National Seniority List. Who will that hurt? Anyone? Will it not put the guys who have been in this business longest where they deserve to be? How about the 20 year Captain at my airline? Do you think he joined TSA and said to himself, "Yup, this is where I want to be for the rest of my career." He waited patiently for the stars to align so he could continue his career and in the meantime: His girlfriend and him get serious and he gets married. Then he had a kid or two (or three, at the same time, like one of our Captains). So now he buys a house. Well, now he is kind of stuck. He has a family to feed and can't afford to take the risk of moving up to a Major for one year of $34/hr with the risk of being on reserve forever and an even bigger risk of being furloughed. Well, if only we had something like the National Seniority List. Then he wouldn't have to worry about taking a huge pay cut or the big risk of being furloughed.

Anyways, food for thought. Maybe this election will help out some. We'll see I guess.

 

Me. I upgraded at CAL in 2.5 years. I'd like to stay there.

 

Thanks. More of a "pref interview" type of thing.? Looking into it more.
Still don't think I would go to GoJets though.

 

Let me re- introduce myself as the OP. This is my first time on apc and I have been amazed. My story is the normal one , worked hard hoping one day to become one of the professionals I remember as a child flying a plane for a living . Now I find myself looking at companies to take the next step and by asking a simple question, I seem to have started a war...lol. Youll notice I havnt been posting much on this thread because I didnt want to talk about things I knew nothing about, so ive sat back done some research, and just watched where this thing went, it really opened my eyes. You see I actually believed that all airline pilots were the consumate professionals I worshipped growing up and now I realize how wrong Ive been, It discusts me to think that this kind of pettiness is out there with the people, I wanted to emmulate. While I believe that with regards to go jets that there might be smoke or even fire, i think someone could say the same thing about most of the regionals out there, the nature of a changing industry, unfortunate by products. I do However agree with guys like mach93,captcarl and some others that say, hey lets take a step back guys, lets be professional, a jumpseat war is not the answer. Lets consider that this is still a free country a man must make his own descisions towards his career, and we should not be fighting amongst ourselves. You see the one thing this thread has acomplished is to make me question even flying regionals jets period. I dont want to worry that some ****ed of capt with an agenda is going to keep me from going to work. Because he is mad at xyz AIRLINE. MABYE THE CORPORATE T-PROP WORLD IS MUCH MORE PROFESSIONAL AND WHERE I SHOULD LOOK. THE OLDER HANDS HAVE IT RIGHT, CAUSE IF I EVER FIND OUT THAT ANY OF YOU so called professionals (im talking the ones who want to continue the war and bodily harm) ARE FLYING A JET I OR MY FAMILY IS ON, YOU WONT HAVE TO REFUSE ME, ILL GET OFF THE PLANE. I never knew there were so many unprofessionals out there. Well at least ive had my eyes opened.

 

Let me see if I can make this easy enough for you to understand. Real airlines bid for contracts with their legacy/LCC partners, they get them and then they fly them. Alter egos are built to steal flying from an already exsiting company under the same Holding company as in the case of gojets.

You're trying to blend the truth with smoke and mirrors. Anyone is welcome on my jumpseat, except contract workers for an alter-ego. Those guys at gojets continue to put TSA guys out of work, they are no different than scabs crossing a line and stabbing their brothers in the back. That type of behavior comes with concequences. Anyone working at gojets regardless of their story and background is a contract worker operating at the same level as a scab. Those guys had a choice to accept employement at an alter ego, they know what they're doing, and didn't care. Blame management all you want, everyone knows that Hulas is a gritty SOB, but those pilots at gojets have free will, no one forced them to work for an alter-ego.

If you can post the flowback provision to gojets, I would love to see that. I talked to my MEC today, and they did some checking, and there is no such a thing, there is however a flow back agreement with TSA.

While you're at it, our paycuts did pass, but we didn't steal our flying from anyone and everyone on property still makes more flying 50 seaters than gojeters on 70 seats. One has no relevance to the other, you're simply trying to make yourself feel better when you go to work.

 

You asked for information, since you didn't hear what you wanted now you think you have a right to call regional pilots unprofessional. Since you're not a part of our industry, quite frankly your opinion doesn't count. As you mentioned in your post, you just don't know. You didn't get furloughed from TSA on account of the scabs at gojets. You haven't been around to fight or even witness how pilots have sustained this industry afloat over the course of the past 8 years, and how an alter-ego like gojets is undermining our hard work. So please, spare me, get about 2 or 3 years in a regional/cargo, and then come back and share your opinions, 'til then you have no right to call anyone unprofessional. Good luck, then again with your attitude, you might be a good fit for gojets.

 

You are avoiding the ATA situation. ATA's scope said that all flying throught the holding company was to be done with ATA pilots under the ATA contract (which was the better of the three contracts anyway) the pilot groups should have been merged. Instead, World and North American were alter-egos to the ATA contract. Though you can't blame any of the pilots that were hired there prior to the buyout (by ATA with money from ATA) All the pilots hired there after the buyout should have known they were taking a job from a FURLOUGHED ATA pilot. This is the same exact same situation as you explain above, that the Gojet pilots are doing to the Trans States pilots, but yet you turn a blind eye because it doesn't affect you. Plus you don't have to worry about it anymore because ALPA national abandoned the scope clause at ATA, and it is a non issue. Again I will add the disclamer. I do not blame the World and North American pilots for what happened to the ATA pilots, nor do I endorse any action against those respective pilot groups. My gripe is with the management at GAL(formally ATA holdings.) I just use the example to point out your double standard.

I posted the references to the contract, look them up if you like. It is not a flow through as you think it is (hence why I said it wasn't very good.) It basically says that any of the any express carriers that are getting 70 seaters must make a certain amount of the new hire slot available to furloughed United pilots. The furloughed pilot will be then paid at the second year rate. Its a little more complicated than that, but it is the gist of it.


Take this for what its worth. I am sorry that this has happened to you guys. I have had to make that decision more than once in my career. Its not a great thing to have management holding a financial gun to your head.

We need to stop this pilot fighting pilot crap. Management has us right were they want us.

 

Bond:

What in the Sam Hill is your problem buddy? Why are you attacking TPROP? Just because he asked a question and was unfortunate enough to get a seriously negative response out of it doesn't mean you get to say, "your opinion doesn't count." His opinion sure as hell does count. He is a commercial (or ATP) pilot and its HIS opinion. And yeah, there are a lot of bitter pilots throughout the system that hate GoJetters, especially at MY company. You don't even work here. We can hold our own, thank you very much. As for your petty little Starbucks BS, get a life, what are you, 12? TPROP was just coming to the very sudden realization that the professionals whose ranks he may want to join someday are full of very bitter and opinionated pilots.

Lastly, don't be encouraging people to join up at GoJet, regardless of their attitude. I would rather you keep your mouth shut and save it for when we really need your help, which, by the way, we won't. I say "we won't" because the way things look right now, with all of TSA's eggs going into United's basket, the opening of the IAD base, the (soon to be) closing of the RIC base, and the rumors of an ORD base, we might all end up being GoJetters. You gonna deny me a jumpseat then?