daretoaviate

Regional airlines undercut majors (my opinion). Regional airlines HAVE lower the bar in aviation industry. in this industry one thing that new airline pilots seem to forget or not realize is that they need to be humble. Also, just an advise, I have seen alot of times in my career what i call " the boomerang effect" . Starting jumpseat wars is DEFENITELY not going to help this industry. I wish all the best to everyone .

Mach93

Then I guess that you are denying the jumpseat to World and North American Pilots also. Did you know that they were bought as an alter-ego to ATA. In matter of fact some of the airplanes that ATA bought (DC-10's) were given to World because they had a cheaper contract. Where was the moral outcry when ATA pilots were put on the street and World and North American continued to operate. Did you know that ATA had scope and fragmentation clauses in their contract? Did you also that there was a grevience filed referencing that portion of the contract. Did you happen to see that ALPA National (as part of a settelment) canceled the above grevience and left a bunch of ATA pilots on the street? If you are going to single out one airline for scope then you better apply the same litmus test to the other airline that have had "scope" violations.

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Oh, and one more thing, United is retiring the 73's because of poor leadership at the top, not because of the existing feeders.

Look at the ASM's. While ASM at mainline have been falling, the ASM's at the express is growing. That is a shift of flying, or at least it is by my definition.

Part of the reason I bring this up is because I'm sure that some of the furloughed pilots from United are going to take postions at Gojet. In matter of fact I know that there my be at least a half a dozen on the way now. Are you going to call out a furloughed mainline pilot for taking a postion there? Are you going to tell him/her that they are a POS for taking a job from a TSA pilot that was more that happy to take the job away from the mainline pilot? Because I won't.

Bond

Still you refuse to acknowledge that the regional feed world was a byproduct of the mainline pilots turning down the flying in the 90's, and you continue to ignore the difference between flying done by legitimate airlines, vs flying taken by alter ego airlines like gojets. It doesn't matter what kind of spin you try to put on it, what gojet pilots have done is wrong, and continues to hurt the industry.

Furthermore, I know two pilots that went from XJT to UA, they're now getting furloughed and will not under any circumstances take a job at gojets. They understand two things, one they will hurt the industry by taking a job at an alter ego, and two, they will make more money working in a different sector (even McDonalds kids make more a year than 1st year f/os anywhere); until they get a call back from the other carriers, or until they get recalled to UA. So the answer to your question remains the same, anyone working at gojets will find a very "heavy" aircraft everytime, regardless of their background.

Oh and by the way, it was Tilton that increased the UAex flying, again the pilots at the majors are accountable for this loss, they now have to fight to claim back the ground they lost in the 90's on account of ego.

Bond

No wars here friend. The jumpseat is reserved for real pilots, not contract workers at an alter-ego. All real pilots are welcome, contract workers at alter-egos are not. Simple enough.

Oh and by the way, this has been going on since they launched that shady operation.

CaptainCarl

GoJet = Alter ego airline. It violates my contract. However, there is more to the story than what's being told here.

Trans States = Just another regional, just not wholly owned, like AMR's red-headed step-child, Eagle. Who, by the way, just in case you didn't get the memo, AMR wants to be rid of.

That MIA flying = Nobody told me it belonged to Eagle. And I understand now that it was not right for us to be flying those routes, but what do you want me to do? "Umm... yeah, RZ (chief pilot), I don't think I'll be coming in today. Yeah. Why you ask? Well, you see, that MIA flying belongs to Eagle, so yeah... It's against their scope. The Eagle guys will be pretty mad if I do their flying... Terminated? Oh man..."

I ain't losing my job because AMR told us to fly your routes. Now, if ALPA wanted to MAN UP and say, "HEY! That's Eagle's flying! TSA pilots: Stand down." I'm all for that. But ALPA didn't say that. In fact, they won't definitively say anything. Hell, all I hear out of them is: "Come on down boys and girls for our informational picketing at XYZ sporting event."

The only way anyone is ever going to get anything accomplished with the two things all pilots care about most (Pay and QOL) is with some kind of measure that puts a strain on MANAGEMENT. Pilots fighting pilots is the biggest waste of time on the planet. It's worse that watching HBO on an overnight. MANAGEMENT is laughing all the way to the bank when they can pit pilots against pilots. It takes the focus off of them and puts it squarely on the Scabs or Alter-ego pilots.

Pilots need to support each other. No one else will. No one else cares. We are the only ones who know what its like to go through what we go through to get where we are. Pilots, as a whole, need to come together as one and decide when ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Will it happen in my career? Maybe. I've got 45 good years left to wait and find out.

Purpleanga

Good post. We're losing our job because of GJ. They're hiring while we're furloughing. Our pay comes from the same people, same company. Anything wrong with that? I'm all for sticking up for one another and if not then at least for your own pilot group to make it a better place so that others may follow. However I'm not for supporting contract workers who are only there because of the AA 50+ seat scope that prohibits TSA from flying 50+ seat airplanes but not their PILOTS. The AE deal is over, they're getting their airplanes that many of us had no control over or even knew about. AE is not furloughing, they might even be hiring.

boilerpilot

um, not to be a debby downer on this good old fasioned bash fest, but didn't gojet cancel all their upcoming classes like a month and a half ago?

laxflier

Debby downer? No way... You'd be a Eunice Upper... That's great news. Few less a$$ holes in the sky.

Mach93

Great then you can deny North American and World pilots the jumpseat, and chastise them in public also. They are hiring while the acquiring pilot group is on the street. Please tell me what the difference is. Just because the ATA/World/North American deal doesn't affect you then you can ignore it? As you say are not we all in this together to better the industry as a whole. If not you are being a hypocrite.
I have friends that were rolled over at ATA (by their own union no less) in regards to the World/North American deal, but I don't harbor any ill will against World, North American or any pilot group for that matter. Life is to short to get bend around the axels over this stuff. The only way we can solve this problem is to have one list among all the pilot groups with one national contract, but the genie is out of the bottle and I don't think that it will ever fit back in. Our ego's are too huge and that is unfortunate.

Mach93

So what. That is history and we can't change that so why talk about it.

ATA was a legitimate airline. World and North American were brought to be an alter-ego to ATA's Section 6 contract negotiations. In direct violation of ATA's scope clause. So by not sticking up for the ATA pilots are you not being a hypocrite, or is it because that ATA problem doesn't affect you it can be ignored? Besides, its to late now anyway since ALPA national signed away ATA's scope protection.

Wrong. It is what we allow managment to do that is hurting the industry.

BTW did you know that in the UAL contract there is a flowback provision for furloughed pilots into the express side(how be it, not a great one.) The question about if UAL pilot is allowed to go to Gojet has been asked, and the union answered that it did not have any problem with a United furloughes going there. Nor is there any edict by ALPA national telling people not to go there. If there is please post it here so that we can see it.

Again, the problem is with management not the pilots.

Lets talk hypothetically, should I (if I can find a job and be a Captain again) start flying "heavy" aircraft if I see an XJ pilot wanting to jumpseat if your LOA for paycuts pass? It fits your definition about "lowering the bar" doesn't? You know what, I wouldn't do that, nor am I advocating it. Life is to short.