mach946

Ok let me put it this way Blueskies, it's a shame It has to spelled out for you in an example. One friend of mine had his savings lost to not only for paying for medical bills for his a sick kid, but a wife who left him for greener pastuers, all the while the divorce court said he owed her more than what she was entitled to. He had over six figures in savings obliterated literally in one year. This whole crap about living beyond ones means is getting pretty old. There are alot of people that have saved wisely ie 401k etc, only to see it cut in half only to now have to work even longer when they retire. I DID NOT mean to offend you, you are fortunate to have saved the way you did, but dont think for one second that you have insulated yourself from adverse negative financial difficulty forever, you were lucky as just a I am to. So if a person makes a decision to go to another airline i.e. GO Jet or switch careers it's there personal decision. Has if ever occured to any of you how hard it is for some people to transition out of flying? And no IM not asking anyone to feel sorry for those who elected to GO Jet, so back off. I have seen folks try and secure jobs right after being furloughed only to have a employer after employer tell them they are over qualified, or that they will not hire them for fear they will return back to their profession once things turn around? In todays economy it is even worse! So you tell me: no more importantly you tell those that are out of work just how long they should elect to stay unemployed, and when is ok to say enough is enough. I need to work. When they are living in a tent? When?
The Luxury is being smug enough think that what you endured is enough to qualify you to cast opinion on someone elses decision to go to a crap airline. Everyone has a breaking point, consider yourself fortunate that you never came close to it.

boilerpilot

Yeah... you really should look it up. When you organize a mass quitting at a certain time to prove a point, which is exactly what you were suggesting, that's called a job action, and it's illegal. Just like taxiing slower than usual, sick-outs, and picking up less open time than usual. It's not illegal to do any of those things, and any of those could have legitimate reasons, but when done in an organized fashion, it IS illegal. Whether or not you're returning or not is completely irrelevant, because the financial implications of you quitting and never returning are far greater than quitting to hope for a new contract.

While the courts may not be able to force you to return to work, they CAN impose damage penalties on you and any other people who quit as a result of the organized mass quitting. Look at many of the cases out there involving job actions, including very recent and prominent examples of United and AA.

Now, it's certainly possible that because of the labor climate we've been operating in the decisions have been skewed towards management, but if too many pilots calling in sick (which gives the airline a headache, nothing more) is resulting in lawsuits, you can imagine what all the pilots quitting (aka company goes out of business) would result in.


Side note; mass quitting is in itself an extremely selfish act. How does this effect passengers? How 'bout other businesses that depend on air travel? How 'bout your coworkers, who would be out of a job when your airline goes under? Just another example of somebody who's only looking out for #1.

mach946

Are you going to quit or not!

Blueskies21

1) I was attempting to point out that planning and personal responsibility does play a part in it. Granted circumstances can arise which you can't plan for, I understand that. How much more could you make doing any number of things than Gojet pays?

2) Yes, it has occured to me how difficult it is to leave flying, I was on my way to an airport manager job when I got offered my current flying job which put me back in the cockpit instead of behind a desk. I didn't really WANT to leave flying, but at the time it looked like that was necessary to pay my bills. For reference all of the jobs I was looking at airport manager wise were paying 10-15k more a year, so I definately made my choice there.

3) Tell those Trans states guys who have seen their pilot group cut almost in HALF while Gojet is hiring why it's ok for you to take their jobs. As long as pilots continue to be pilots worst enemies it's never going to get better.

4) Luxury is calling my eeking out an existance on savings after furlough without having been in my shoes Luxury. I take issue with your word choice.

I'd work at office depot before I went to Gojet. If they couldn't staff that airline they'd have to negotiate with Trans States. I'm neither Trans States or Gojet just a guy who's sick of seeing our career going downhill, everyone contributing to it, and then wondering why.

mach946

Does this mean your not quiting either? If so, I recant my offer to quit at 15:00 EST.

Blueskies21

Seems like you work at Mesa, were you there when the Freedom A-listers left? Say what you will about Mesa, at least you guys got the lists merged. Is it really so much to ask that you give Trans States guys that opportunity too?

mach946

As a matter of fact I was. Had people taken the advice you and others have doled out i.e dont go to MESA, it's a crap outfit, scabs etc, help out your fellow pilots in the industry by staying away from MESA etc.. We would have never seen list merged.
As for TSA I hope they prevail, and not in a small way but a huge way; they deserve it. It's sad to say I and others want them to suceed more than their own management team.

Blueskies21

Actually I think the advice we'd be giving is don't go to Freedom.....

mach946

You want to talk about selfish? We have a government that is willing to side with the airline management at the expense of the employees. Employees that pay taxes to this very entity that gives teeth to the employer to bite you in the A@#$$. Now if your getting bit in the A@##$$ and at the same time feel compelled to worry about others around you then that is your perogative. You talk about organized quitting. It's already happening indirectly; peole are not rushing to learn to fly, and those that have been furloughed are not comming back. Now if management continues to seek ways to screw us over, then we have every right to walk away, and IM not talking about comming back. Alot of folks have spent a pretty penny aquiring the skills to be a career pilot, and they expect a return on the investment. If they dont get it they are entitled to close shop and move on. They dont owe other employees or other entities anything just because thier decision may adversely affect them. Thank goodness the catalyst making it happen is management and the government. I was being sarcastic with my suggestions. What amazes me is how folks like you can come up with all the legal recitiations as to why we CANT do anything. " He who argues for his limitations gets to keep them".

CaptKrunch

They are not hiring. Neither is pretty much anyone else. Have you checked the unemployment rates lately? Its not just the airlines that are hurting, it is everyone.