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Old 05-23-2013 | 12:58 PM
  #61  
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Originally Posted by block30
As for as a shortage goes, I personally believe the crux is in how is a pilot shortage defined? The lack of applicants at jobs paying below 20ish k doesn't raise my alarms, but that is just me.
How is supersonic defined? The leading edges go supersonic first, so if you're going to monitor it, you need to measure there. If you're waiting for the majors to run out, why bother.
Originally Posted by erjpilot
If anyone disagrees please explain.
I have no crystal ball, but attempting to stay educated and informed on what facts are out there. Regionals aren't offering bonuses because they have too much money and need to give more away.
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Old 05-23-2013 | 01:21 PM
  #62  
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Originally Posted by JetDoc
I see there is the need of a little background here so I will offer it. I am 46 years old, not a snot nosed kid throwing a " I want it now!" tantrum. I have been flying since 2005 and instructing for a bit over 4 years now at a PT 141 school. I possess an A&P license a CFI, CFII and a MEI. I am a designated check pilot at my school. I have given 13 checkride endorsements and not had a single applicant fail. I have had countless students try to kill me. I have never wrecked an airplane or ever had a certificate action taken against me. I have over 1700 hours TT and meet all ATP mins except cross country. I have paid my dues so if lamenting the fact that the requirements have been overly inflated constitutes "whining", so be it. That's your opinion and your are entitled to it.

What were the requirements when you were hired Block30? And I'm not asking what your qualifications were when you were hired. Just what the FAA required...... The bar has been moved and the law of unintended consequences is starting to rear its ugly head with the sad fact being that there are plenty of us out here qualified and willing to go to work...

As always, with respect...
You already told me your equals, which I think are commendable. You'll get to a regional in due time. I don't understand this "I need it now" mentality. So you have been qualified for IFR 135 for 500 hours and VFR 135 for 1200 hours. You have apparently chosen not to do those jobs. That's fine. But you should also understand how much XC time your current job averages per month.

Nothing drove me more nuts than listening to the CFIs at my school complain to me that they weren't getting enough money, time off, this kind of flight time, that kind of flight time, blah, blah, blah. I was in the same boat, except I had a -gasp- second part time job. Almost all CFIs were former students of the school and they knew the drill. I'm sorry, most CFI jobs don't provide everything all at once. And if you find the CFI job that does, please apply there, I'm not holding you back.

Also, what's it matter what my company required if I exceeded the mins? I had almost 3k TT when I got hired...I can't remember how the rest of my hours broke down. I think the company mins were 1,000 TT and 100 ME. I don't think its hypocritical to ask for people to have about half what I did when I got on at my first 121 gig. I have walked the proverbial mile in those shoes.
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Old 05-23-2013 | 05:38 PM
  #63  
On Reserve
 
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Originally Posted by Hilltopper89
Spot on. When the Fed stops pumping and monetizing our debt we're in trouble again.
I like to lurk most the time. But I'll add a point.

The Fed is not "monetizing" the debt. The Fed has been accommodating bad loans and lowering interest rates by increasing the amount of reserves held at the central bank. The actual amount of money created in this process (most accurately measured by M2 as opposed to the monetary base) has been disproportionate.
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Old 05-23-2013 | 10:01 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by block30
You already told me your equals, which I think are commendable. You'll get to a regional in due time. I don't understand this "I need it now" mentality. So you have been qualified for IFR 135 for 500 hours and VFR 135 for 1200 hours. You have apparently chosen not to do those jobs. That's fine. But you should also understand how much XC time your current job averages per month.

Nothing drove me more nuts than listening to the CFIs at my school complain to me that they weren't getting enough money, time off, this kind of flight time, that kind of flight time, blah, blah, blah. I was in the same boat, except I had a -gasp- second part time job. Almost all CFIs were former students of the school and they knew the drill. I'm sorry, most CFI jobs don't provide everything all at once. And if you find the CFI job that does, please apply there, I'm not holding you back.

Also, what's it matter what my company required if I exceeded the mins? I had almost 3k TT when I got hired...I can't remember how the rest of my hours broke down. I think the company mins were 1,000 TT and 100 ME. I don't think its hypocritical to ask for people to have about half what I did when I got on at my first 121 gig. I have walked the proverbial mile in those shoes.

I do have a second job. I don't even know what that comment was supposed to mean. No viable PT 135 jobs where I live. You actually think I didn't think of that? And you never answered my question. What were the FAA minimums to be a SIC at an airline when you were hired? Well I'll answer it for you. It was 250 hrs and a wet commercial and the system worked just fine. Quite frankly I really don't think anybody cares what you think the minimums should be. The two dunder heads who messed it up for everyone had over 2500 hrs a piece. How would have the 1500 rule helped that. In fact, this whole ATP BS has done absolutely nothing to improve safety and has raised the price of admission to your little club so astronomically high that people who ordinarily would have been great pilots will now choose to go do something else.

Empathy, crack a dictionary and look it up....
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Old 05-24-2013 | 02:45 AM
  #65  
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BTW, part 135 requires 500 cross country for IFR, and the only VFR operators are around the Grand Canyon, Hawaii and Alaska.
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Old 05-24-2013 | 05:10 AM
  #66  
Gets Weekends Off
 
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Originally Posted by JetDoc
I do have a second job. I don't even know what that comment was supposed to mean. No viable PT 135 jobs where I live. You actually think I didn't think of that? And you never answered my question. What were the FAA minimums to be a SIC at an airline when you were hired? Well I'll answer it for you. It was 250 hrs and a wet commercial and the system worked just fine. Quite frankly I really don't think anybody cares what you think the minimums should be. The two dunder heads who messed it up for everyone had over 2500 hrs a piece. How would have the 1500 rule helped that. In fact, this whole ATP BS has done absolutely nothing to improve safety and has raised the price of admission to your little club so astronomically high that people who ordinarily would have been great pilots will now choose to go do something else.

Empathy, crack a dictionary and look it up....

Hi JetDoc,

I agree with you on some of your points, however blaming the Colgan crew is pointless because most airline accidents are a result of pilot error. The Colgan accident was not the first airline accident whereas the crew put in the wrong control input or had not been exposed to icing conditions. When I was hired by a regional in the mid 90's the mins. were 2500 hours and a ATP plus part 135 time. The qualifications went down over the years because no one was willing to work for low wages. In the 90's I saw a path to major carrier whereas today those chances have dimmed significantly.
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Old 05-24-2013 | 05:21 AM
  #67  
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JetDoc - I wish you good luck, you are walking a path that thousands of guys have walked previously. That said, the 250 hour FO in the right seat of an RJ - based upon a lot of conversation with CA's and others intimately involved... In many if not most cases, they were viewed almost as a liability rather than an asset to the captain. "It'd be easier to do this solo" was a common comment.

Captains were reduced to not only being PIC in demanding conditions, they were also doing CFI duties for free; correcting, monitoring, and mentoring the noob. A certain amount of mentoring is inevitable, but an FO should not be a burden to the CA.

I think the 1,500 ATP rule is a bit arbitrary, and could be lowered, with caveats. Perhaps some sort of "experience" algorithm could be formulated. A guy hauling boxes in night IFR all over the country has a superior experience level to the same number of hours in a 172 beating up a pattern.

So there's got to be a line somewhere. For now and the immediate future, it's the ATP rule. Again, good luck.
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Old 05-24-2013 | 09:20 AM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by JetDoc
I do have a second job. I don't even know what that comment was supposed to mean. No viable PT 135 jobs where I live. You actually think I didn't think of that? And you never answered my question. What were the FAA minimums to be a SIC at an airline when you were hired? Well I'll answer it for you. It was 250 hrs and a wet commercial and the system worked just fine. Quite frankly I really don't think anybody cares what you think the minimums should be. The two dunder heads who messed it up for everyone had over 2500 hrs a piece. How would have the 1500 rule helped that. In fact, this whole ATP BS has done absolutely nothing to improve safety and has raised the price of admission to your little club so astronomically high that people who ordinarily would have been great pilots will now choose to go do something else.

Empathy, crack a dictionary and look it up....
If you are going to split hairs, the FAA requirement right now is still a commercial pilot certificate. Also, the Colgan crew having more than 1500 hours AT THE TIME OF THE ACCIDENT is missing the point. If you want a flying job that bad I'm sure you'll find a way to get the time eventually and I'm sure you will be a better pilot for it.
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Old 05-24-2013 | 10:09 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by ForeverFO
JetDoc - I wish you good luck, you are walking a path that thousands of guys have walked previously. That said, the 250 hour FO in the right seat of an RJ - based upon a lot of conversation with CA's and others intimately involved... In many if not most cases, they were viewed almost as a liability rather than an asset to the captain. "It'd be easier to do this solo" was a common comment.

Captains were reduced to not only being PIC in demanding conditions, they were also doing CFI duties for free; correcting, monitoring, and mentoring the noob. A certain amount of mentoring is inevitable, but an FO should not be a burden to the CA.

I think the 1,500 ATP rule is a bit arbitrary, and could be lowered, with caveats. Perhaps some sort of "experience" algorithm could be formulated. A guy hauling boxes in night IFR all over the country has a superior experience level to the same number of hours in a 172 beating up a pattern.

So there's got to be a line somewhere. For now and the immediate future, it's the ATP rule. Again, good luck.
^^^Well said^^^
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Old 05-24-2013 | 11:05 AM
  #70  
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Originally Posted by ForeverFO
That said, the 250 hour FO in the right seat of an RJ - based upon a lot of conversation with CA's and others intimately involved... In many if not most cases, they were viewed almost as a liability rather than an asset to the captain. "It'd be easier to do this solo" was a common comment.
100% correct. I have heard this from 3 friends at 3 different regionals. One used to tell his FOs to sit on their hands and not talk on the radio for very short flights. He found it safer and less stressful to just fly essentially single pilot on a 30 minute flight. All said being a full time instructor in a Regional Jet for no extra pay really sucked and was stressful.
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