captjns

Beware. Its not what it seems beneath the surface. Juniors don't layover any place but back at your base. You fly out or back which ever, but either way the front end swaps out... ergo, no layover.

You don't get an FAA or JAA certificate at the end of training... ergo you essentially a prisoner of the airline. No other airline recognzies an airman certificate from the mid east. The pay is average for the work performed. Since the airline is not a coporation in the sence of a normal business, being owned by royalty forget any union intervention.

A friend of mine told me that the training includes about 100 hours of simulator training. They don't want their locals who buy their jobs to feel shall we say less than their western counterparts in the cockpit. Oh yeah on some flights break out the prayer rugs. My buddy has observed prayer rituals during flights to and from London which is his current route. There are much better opportunities in aviation than Emirates accorndnig to my friend Eirik.

Kpt40

According to your friend Erik..... You are speaking not as an expert(one who is in the company doing the job, but as someone who heard about the company from someone else.)
Please list the better opportunities- according to your friend.
Then I will list my experience as flying for a jet airline in the USA. We will see who wins.
A FAA/JAA license with type...hmmm. Can't speak of the JAA, but I came back to the states with my logbook and flight times and FAA atpl. Type ratings are not really that big a deal unless its a 737 for SWA
Moving out of your own country is never an easy move, lets make it based on facts at least and not speculation of what we heard from a friend of a friend.
So far the facts as I see them- Emirates
Pay- Starting Pay 5000 usd/month -with up to 800 in overs for ot/per diem, tax free
Equipment- pretty damn good
Educational allowance for kids, medical dental for family,and a villa or apartment- with no utilitie payments.
Retirement- a fund managed off shore- Sorry Delta and USAir and United mgmt- can't touch this- that the company pays 12-15 percent of base salary into.

USA - pay- well, since only CAL and SWA are hiring- with the new VirginUSA, lets look at what they pay. Continental 29.97/hr. before taxes. you do the math. SWA -depends on how you play the system.but about 40000 yr 1.
All taxed, and dont forget your rent and utilities.
Equipment,- great equipment.
Educational allowance for kids- "No child left Behind/and HeadStart"
If you are really lucky , you may have sent them to a Montesorry (sp?-public school product here )school-and then a pvt high school, again, you do the math.
Retirement. All pensions will die. If you are at CAL and you don't see that coming,you may be in for a shock. SWA matches a large percent- 100? of you 401 k.
...Now, if the guy I fly with pulls out the prayer rug and starts praying,
I will log it as PIC, and god is my co-pilot. --
Quality of life- Having literally travelled the world, From Beijing to Singapore and NYC to Narita, I see the long term potential of Dubai as second to none- however, you will have to put up with alot of headaches as the big growing pains affect you-contruction- congestion, traffic.
Alot of the ppl here and on Pprune complain about Emirates , and I am certain they have legit issues and they have alot to complain about. Some complain because they can. Some complain to keep the pool dry so benefits increase.Some complain because its a national pasttime.But, compare apples to apples.
Look at what you are doing now, and decide if Emirates or China Air or Gulf or Singapore or Comair is better for you.- and your family. Just base it on facts, and not what someone heard at band camp.

Typhoonpilot

Hi Bob:

Welcome to the forum. I was not hired as a DEC at EK. When I was hired they were not hiring DECs. When they instituted the program to bring in DECs, myself and a few others who qualified to be DECs were upgraded straight away. I was an F.O. for one year.

It is not true that the DECs are hated. Certainly there are those who have been adversely affected by the company changing it's policy and hiring DECs, but most are mature enough to realize it isn't the DECs themselves who have caused their slower upgrade time. I imagine you could get some grief from the few immature First Officers who are unable to differentiate, but by and large you will be treated well.

Training at EK is very different from the States. It is very much self-study with a lot of checking involved in what should be training situations. I'm an instructor on the 777 and can say that there are a fair number of us who do train the way you may be used to in the States, but EK's policies do make us perform a lot more checking than we would prefer to.

That said the time for training is nore than enough. The full 777 transition course is quite long with 10 Fixed Base Sim/Procedures sessions and another 10 full flight sims. The short course for those qualified on 737-800, 757, 767, and 747-400 would be 6 Fixed base sims and a total of 6 or 7 full flight sims. That one is a bit tighter because you really need to get your procedures down well in those first 6 fixed base sims.

Upgrades for new joiners will run at about 5 to 7 years. It is seniority based with some exceptions. If you qualify for fast track you could theoretically upgrade in 18 months, if no other people ahead of you qualify. Fast track ( accelerated ) requires 8000 hours total and 2000 hours PIC on aircraft over 55 tonne. DEC is 10,000 total with 3000 PIC over 55 tonne. Otherwise it is a minimum of 3 years at EK.

No crew bases outside of the UAE for now.

See above. EK is not a commuting job. I get back to the States once or twice per year with annual leave. It is a 9 hours time difference to the East Coast and very painful adjustment. I mush prefer going elsewhere on my leave.


Typhoonpilot

Typhoonpilot

I don't even know where to begin with this. The first paragraph makes no sense whatsoever. "Juniors don't layover anywhere but back at base." What does that mean ? The only people who don't do many layovers are those who bid to fly out and backs. We do lots of layovers.

Who cares whether you get an FAA or JAA certificate at the end of training. You should already have one. True the type rating doesn't go on your FAA certificate, but that doesn't really matter because the last time I checked no U.S. operator was hiring 777 or A330 rated pilots. If they were, they would still hire you based on experience and your original FAA ATP.

A full transtition course would be 40 hours of full flight sim and another 20 fixed base sim . Close to 100, but not quite. Hey, the more training the better in my book.

The locals don't buy jobs. They are cadets who undergo over 3 years of training to get to the right seat of a widebody jet. Haven't seen a prayer rug here yet, but I've seen them plenty of times in Saudi Arabian Airlines. I have the deepest respect for those who have the discipline to pray 5 times per day and will give them the opportunity to do so where and when they desire ( as long as it's not on takeoff or approach ).

Typhoonpilot

Savannahguy

TP,

Curious if the current flap over the UAE company taking over running a half dozen of US Ports might alter sentiment away from hiring Americans. What is your opinion on this...

Thanks

Typhoonpilot

Not at all. EK desperately needs pilots and the only good hunting ground remaining is the USA.

TP

RedeyeAV8r

I fly to DXB with Emirates on occasion. I can't say what it is like to work there but they are a CLASS operation from the passenger point of view. Very attractive FA's that give grate service and the Aircraft all all new and clean.

But they are Government owned an operated and with the price of Gas the UAE government can afford anything they want.( even run the Sea Ports in the US).............plus I wonder what Emirates and Gulf Air pay for jet fuel? I bet it ain't $2.00.........................Good luck for all who are trying to get on there. I am sure there are much worse places to work.

Typhoonpilot

Thanks for the good words on the EK service. It is definitely good, especially in First and Business.

EK is not operated by the government though, it is a separate entity and must swim or sink on it's own. The received $10 million in start-up capital in 1985 and haven't gone back for anymore. Obviously with the backing of the Dubai government it's easy for them to enter into financial agreements, but it is EK who pays a dividend to the government every year, not the other way around.

EK's 2005/2006 fiscal year fuel cost is $1.62 per gallon. Direct operating costs for fuel have gone from 21.4% of DOCs in 2004/2005 to 35.0% of DOCs in 2005/2006.


Typhoonpilot

RedeyeAV8r

Thanks for straighting me out.........I was under the impressiom they still were Gov sponsored. I am surprised that they pay that much fo fuel.......especially at the DXB airport.

Fly4hire

Typhoon,

I read on PPRUNE that the licenses you get in the Mideast working for EK do not equate to any other ICAO, US or EU ticket so that if you got typed over there in something any left several years later your ticket is worthless anywhere else in the world.

Fact or fiction?