130drvr

I hear ya man, I might have stayed in had the AF not tried to take a dump on me and my family.

I think QOL takes on several meanings however. My family will be happy to not move 3 times over the next 7, and to be able settle down where we want and for my kids to be in one school district for their whole time. As an AF brat, that is worth living on less than the huge pile of cash the military doles out.

Summing up, control of your future and your familiy's future, IMO, is worth working for less(caveat-not at the expense of your family's well-being; ie at a regional where you are never home and making McDonald's wages), as long as you pick a good company that will lead to good wages soon. I just got hired at ATI, will start at 36K, throw in per diem, and I am at 40K first year with a 10Kish raise every year for the first 3-4 years.

I think we are on the same page.

MiserDD

I’ve been looking at ATI. Did you start third seat? I hear ABX, which did away with all their DC-8s is looking at buying them out. What are your thoughts on the company and its future? You can IM me if you don’t want to make a public post on that.

Cooperd0g

I'm not trying to paint a picture of doom and gloom, nor am I trying to tell anyone to get out of the industry. I'm just responding to some posts where some people seem to thing everything is going to be just peachy keen on the horizon. That's all. Too often on this forum people have an extreme view in one direction or the other.

I have been overseas a bunch. I'm still in the military and haven't transitioned yet. I have not lived overseas though. But I do not want to. I like where I live and not moving is the main reason I'm getting out of the military.

atpcliff

Hi!

The holding company that owns ABX bought ATI (and Capital Air Cargo?) about 6 months ago.

cliff
GRB

dutch747

Here is a Time Magazine Article that touches on this very subject:

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/ar...727702,00.html

I especially like the beginning part where the pilot complains about management leaving the airline with a "Golden Parachute".

DanC

Found Here: http://seekingalpha.com/article/7089...-term-problems

Warning to Airlines: Flight Instructor Shortage Could Create Long-Term Problems
by: Cam Hui posted on: April 02, 2008

I don’t normally comment on fundamental analysis here, despite having been a small cap analyst early in my career. However, since Mrs. Humble Student of the Markets is a pilot and has numerous contacts in the aviation industry I thought I would make an exception.

There seems to be a dearth of flight instructors in North America, largely because of the low paying nature of the job. Recently, Mrs. Humble Student of the Markets was involved in a feasibility study to bring students from China to Canada to be trained as pilots. To make a long story short, she found that there was little spare educational capacity at Canadian flight schools, largely because of an instructor shortage. The parallel situation exists in the US (and in any case the US is not suitable for foreign student flight training in the post-9/11 era.)

Why does that matter? It matters because pilots, and airline pilots in particular, need to be trained as older ones retire. This shortage of flight instructors will eventually feed into a shortage of pilots, which will shift the bargaining power of pilot unions vs. the airlines. In fact, the shortage is starting to be felt in the emerging markets, where there is not a ready supply of experienced pilots. In one instance, an airline based in an emerging market country offered a job to a recently a qualified pilot (commercial multi-engine IFR rating) as a First Officer (co-pilot) with the understanding that he would be promoted to Captain (pilot) after 500 hours of flight time. This would be the equivalent of allowing a fresh intern, one or two years out of medical school, to perform brain surgery.

Back in North America, it probably doesn’t make a huge difference in the medium term as the United States heads into recession, which would likely result in layoffs at the airlines and create a surplus of pilots. Longer term, however, the shortage of flight instructors and eventually pilots is like the plankton disappearing from the ocean – it eventually makes itself felt all the way up the food chain.

Bsatchel

Even YOU have to understand that going from $100K per year to $40-45K then building back up will be an effort for most people--assuming there are no furloughs along the way. Your looking down your nose attitude to a bunch of people you don't even know defines you as a shallow half-wit not worthy of the company you share.

dutch747

Someone has a chip on their shoulder.

Chris

Yeah, but I bet your buddy didn't factor in the cost of living in Tokyo. Not that it's a bad contract or anything but just to add some perspective to his figures. Commuting is allowed but I wouldn't do a transpacific commute just to get to work. It's not like the NCA 744 contract where you could eventually get domiciled at SFO.

Japan's an awesome place. I just wish it wasn't so expensive..