jetBlue or Spirit
03-27-2019, 05:51 PM
#241
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 988
Originally Posted by 360KIAS
Sorry for your obvious misery. My contract seems to be better than yours. Here's hoping you are able to move on to a "real" airline soon you you can b!tch about how great things are (not) there.
Ours will be just as good as Delta's, once we have as many iterations of CBAs that they have under their belt.
Ours will be just as good as Delta's, once we have as many iterations of CBAs that they have under their belt.
You're obviously very junior. Because this is who this CBA was designed for. Anyone with any seniority, either overall or in their seat, got screwed with this deal. Period.
And you can GFY talking about moving on. I'd be gone in a second if I was 10 years younger. Unfortunately, I'm stuck here and will ride it out into the sunset. With blue juice drinkers, glad to be here, it's better than where I was before, hand me a pair of blue glove guys like you and Southerner.
03-27-2019, 06:00 PM
#242
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 2,002
Originally Posted by Southerner
He doesn't want facts. He wants to hold his opinion without being rational, and be miserable.
We do have room for improvement, naturally. There's no such thing as a perfect contract. The profit sharing is less than other carriers. Personally, I prefer to have solid work rules and good pay rates, because the company can always have as much or as little profit as they want to show. We saw this last cycle. So even with our profit sharing where it is, it wouldn't be my top priority for the next round.
American has some truly stupid work rules. Ours are far better, and our pay protections for extensions, etc. are light years ahead. I just spent a few hours on a AA jumpseat and we compared some notes. Personally, I wouldn't swap CBAs with them. We make more money than them, mostly due to the fact that our staffing is screwed up and we get RSA/VDA/EPS all the time. But that's part of the CBA. You have to understand that you can't compare just straight 75 hours for all CBAs and consider them as apples to apples. You have to look at the provisions for disruption, scope, reserve, etc., to really see what the playing field is like.
I feel sorry for "Les Miserables" on here. It's kinda sad to see people who worked so hard to get here work themselves into a tizzy, and make themselves miserable. But, honestly, they would be the guy at Delta complaining just as much. You can't fix these types. They just complain.
We do have room for improvement, naturally. There's no such thing as a perfect contract. The profit sharing is less than other carriers. Personally, I prefer to have solid work rules and good pay rates, because the company can always have as much or as little profit as they want to show. We saw this last cycle. So even with our profit sharing where it is, it wouldn't be my top priority for the next round.
American has some truly stupid work rules. Ours are far better, and our pay protections for extensions, etc. are light years ahead. I just spent a few hours on a AA jumpseat and we compared some notes. Personally, I wouldn't swap CBAs with them. We make more money than them, mostly due to the fact that our staffing is screwed up and we get RSA/VDA/EPS all the time. But that's part of the CBA. You have to understand that you can't compare just straight 75 hours for all CBAs and consider them as apples to apples. You have to look at the provisions for disruption, scope, reserve, etc., to really see what the playing field is like.
I feel sorry for "Les Miserables" on here. It's kinda sad to see people who worked so hard to get here work themselves into a tizzy, and make themselves miserable. But, honestly, they would be the guy at Delta complaining just as much. You can't fix these types. They just complain.
03-27-2019, 06:26 PM
#243
Banned
Joined APC: Feb 2009
Posts: 1,445
Originally Posted by Qotsaautopilot
To the OP,
From a spirit pilot, if I had an offer TODAY to be the plug at either spirit or jetblue I’d choose Jetblue and never look back.
I’d also kill for Jetblue scope. It’s section one for a reason, it’s the most important section.
I also completely agree with the guys that say jetblue fell short on this contract. They got closer than we did at spirit as we dropped the ball big time. You don’t pattern to the back of the line.
As for the question of who is who’s peer? How the BOD and C-level decide to package the product aft of the cockpit door is completely meaningless. I don’t care if it’s a ULCC, LCC, legacy, cargo. An Airbus or any airplane for that matter is the same as the next and our responsibility is the same. The “this isn’t delta” crowd only hurts themselves and the rest of us.
From a spirit pilot, if I had an offer TODAY to be the plug at either spirit or jetblue I’d choose Jetblue and never look back.
I’d also kill for Jetblue scope. It’s section one for a reason, it’s the most important section.
I also completely agree with the guys that say jetblue fell short on this contract. They got closer than we did at spirit as we dropped the ball big time. You don’t pattern to the back of the line.
As for the question of who is who’s peer? How the BOD and C-level decide to package the product aft of the cockpit door is completely meaningless. I don’t care if it’s a ULCC, LCC, legacy, cargo. An Airbus or any airplane for that matter is the same as the next and our responsibility is the same. The “this isn’t delta” crowd only hurts themselves and the rest of us.
The big 3 got their pay and benefits in place when we could do just that. A scab was visible and not just some anonymous apologist who couldn't wait to vote yes. I'm not calling for a wildcat strike, but if the NMB keeps being in management's pocket, and ALPA keeps its noodle limp, eventually that needs to be on the table.
03-27-2019, 06:51 PM
#244
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2016
Posts: 478
Originally Posted by BunkerF16
You're obviously very junior. Because this is who this CBA was designed for. Anyone with any seniority, either overall or in their seat, got screwed with this deal. Period.
And you can GFY talking about moving on. I'd be gone in a second if I was 10 years younger. Unfortunately, I'm stuck here and will ride it out into the sunset. With blue juice drinkers, glad to be here, it's better than where I was before, hand me a pair of blue glove guys like you and Southerner.
And you can GFY talking about moving on. I'd be gone in a second if I was 10 years younger. Unfortunately, I'm stuck here and will ride it out into the sunset. With blue juice drinkers, glad to be here, it's better than where I was before, hand me a pair of blue glove guys like you and Southerner.
The CBA has been good overall this far for me personally, and I think for the pilot group as a whole. Perfect? Of course not. Neither were my first six marriages. But there is plenty of room, and plenty of time for improvement, so let's focus on that, instead of disparaging the majority of the group who voted yes on an anonymous forum, eh?
You're not "stuck" here. You could (and I suspect you WOULD) quit tomorrow, if it were really all that bad. But it's not all that bad. You admitted to us all that it's better than where you were before, so that's a start. Focus on the positive, let the negative go. I'll be right here with you for the next several years, so let's drink some adult beverages when we're not slaving away, and talk about the good ole days together. I'm sure we could each come up with some stories that would raise eyebrows.
And while I can appreciate an ineffectual KBW attempt at an online slam, I have never donned a pair of blue gloves in an airplane. Ever.
03-28-2019, 10:30 AM
#245
PermaFO
Joined APC: Jan 2014
Position: May I swing the gear Von Admiral?
Posts: 130
This thread got me thinking, when I was interviewed part of the reasoning for the lower pay (told to us by the MCO CP at the time) was that with his PTO sell back included at his longevity the hourly rate was already as good as the legacies. I wonder how he justifies it now... but 360 and our southern friends are right. I’m here till there’s dirt on the windscreen.
03-28-2019, 11:18 AM
#246
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by PasserOGas
My QOL and pay have barely moved pre-CBA to post-CBA. Then again, I did what the arithmatic told me to do and sold my PTO. I can see why we only picketed once. Solid gains indeed. 
I can't wait to see the mental gymnastic people on here will go through to justify a pay cut with the next one.
My prediction, we will be in a recession, but B6 will still be profitable. It will be concessionary.
I can't wait to see the mental gymnastic people on here will go through to justify a pay cut with the next one.
My prediction, we will be in a recession, but B6 will still be profitable. It will be concessionary.
01-04-2020, 06:37 PM
#247
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 214
Just wanted to bump this thread. If one were to choose today between the both how would you feel?
From what I can see Spirit certainly has a better QOL written into their contract. For example dropping to 0 and the flexibility in moving bases etc. The pay is not as high initially but at the current 3 year or so upgrade ( of course can always increase ) you will make a higher rate faster than at JB though not completely sure what the upgrade time is on the bus or erj.
Anyways was just hoping for some opinions from pilots from both groups.
For me QOL is definitely more important than the almighty dollar.
From what I can see Spirit certainly has a better QOL written into their contract. For example dropping to 0 and the flexibility in moving bases etc. The pay is not as high initially but at the current 3 year or so upgrade ( of course can always increase ) you will make a higher rate faster than at JB though not completely sure what the upgrade time is on the bus or erj.
Anyways was just hoping for some opinions from pilots from both groups.
For me QOL is definitely more important than the almighty dollar.
01-04-2020, 07:16 PM
#249
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2016
Posts: 2,559
Originally Posted by korg128
Just wanted to bump this thread. If one were to choose today between the both how would you feel?
From what I can see Spirit certainly has a better QOL written into their contract. For example dropping to 0 and the flexibility in moving bases etc. The pay is not as high initially but at the current 3 year or so upgrade ( of course can always increase ) you will make a higher rate faster than at JB though not completely sure what the upgrade time is on the bus or erj.
Anyways was just hoping for some opinions from pilots from both groups.
For me QOL is definitely more important than the almighty dollar.
From what I can see Spirit certainly has a better QOL written into their contract. For example dropping to 0 and the flexibility in moving bases etc. The pay is not as high initially but at the current 3 year or so upgrade ( of course can always increase ) you will make a higher rate faster than at JB though not completely sure what the upgrade time is on the bus or erj.
Anyways was just hoping for some opinions from pilots from both groups.
For me QOL is definitely more important than the almighty dollar.
I would challenge you to post examples of how Spirit QOL is better than JBs. Not saying you are wrong, but it would help to know what is important to you.
For me, #1 QOL aspect is living in base. Are you willing to move, or commute?
Money isn’t everything, but it DOES make a difference over a career. Are you sure you’re willing to do the same job for less than your peers at the majors?
Me? No regrets at JB. I know people at Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, etc who are happy. Some are staying, some still have apps out. At the end of the day, only YOU can decide for you.
01-05-2020, 09:07 AM
#250
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 214
Originally Posted by HighFlight
I would challenge you to post examples of how Spirit QOL is better than JBs. Not saying you are wrong, but it would help to know what is important to you.
For me, #1 QOL aspect is living in base. Are you willing to move, or commute?
Money isn’t everything, but it DOES make a difference over a career. Are you sure you’re willing to do the same job for less than your peers at the majors?
Me? No regrets at JB. I know people at Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, etc who are happy. Some are staying, some still have apps out. At the end of the day, only YOU can decide for you.
For me, #1 QOL aspect is living in base. Are you willing to move, or commute?
Money isn’t everything, but it DOES make a difference over a career. Are you sure you’re willing to do the same job for less than your peers at the majors?
Me? No regrets at JB. I know people at Spirit, Frontier, Allegiant, etc who are happy. Some are staying, some still have apps out. At the end of the day, only YOU can decide for you.
Also I would move to either base so commuting is out of it and a non factor.. Really my biggest question is it possible to get good blocks of time off at jb..? Probably but waiting 7 years for seniority to get that isn't an option.
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