Merger question
10-08-2019 | 11:26 AM
#81
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
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From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
So to be clear a merger with virgin is a minor change?
10-08-2019 | 11:28 AM
#82
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 3,273
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From: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
To your first question, I have said:
"As I said, no JB pilot has suggested that RJ scope wasn't expected/demanded, but it's not a good justification for expecting/justifying a crummy CBA."
To this: "Dude I don’t know what will happen in 27 years..." You said you had 27 years left and that this issue wouldn't be an issue. That's the whole reason I wrote that long post.
And you say, you're glad we have scope. I say, it's partial scope, hence the content of the long post.
"As I said, no JB pilot has suggested that RJ scope wasn't expected/demanded, but it's not a good justification for expecting/justifying a crummy CBA."
To this: "Dude I don’t know what will happen in 27 years..." You said you had 27 years left and that this issue wouldn't be an issue. That's the whole reason I wrote that long post.
And you say, you're glad we have scope. I say, it's partial scope, hence the content of the long post.
10-08-2019 | 11:40 AM
#83
Banned
Joined: Jun 2019
Posts: 442
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As Robin said, it was a short notice small window of opportunity to make a play to overnight add an already existing west coast network when other organic west coast strategies have so far failed to really materialize, and west coast access to gates/slots remains limited. This, coupled with merging with an airline with a similar culture/product made sense. Yes, it'd have been a big change from the "organic all the way" mantra. But it was an overnight solution to a thus far unsolved long term problem. That is in stark contrast to bringing on a fleet of outsourced RJs, in an upgauging slot/gate constrained environment, which wouldn't solve any issues that currently plague JetBlue. Both scenarios would cause a lot of issues at JetBlue...but at least the Virgin merger would have solved a major problem in the process.
You can't really use the attempted Virgin acquisition in an argument about protecting yourself from outsourced RJs. If JetBlue wanted outsourced RJs, they would have had them. But as pointed out multiple times, we don't have gate space or slots for RJs. We are upgauging (significantly)...not downgauging. The blowback from outsourcing our flying, during a labor dispute, with a regional pilot shortage and massive major hiring, would have blown this operation up even further, and there is a 0.00002% chance JB management would have done that. That is why RJ scope didn't take much negotiating capital. Yes it is important. The most important section. But in this case it wasn't a sole reason to vote yes. And our section 1 has plenty of holes in it anyway as has also been pointed out. So it was good, but not great by any means.
You can't really use the attempted Virgin acquisition in an argument about protecting yourself from outsourced RJs. If JetBlue wanted outsourced RJs, they would have had them. But as pointed out multiple times, we don't have gate space or slots for RJs. We are upgauging (significantly)...not downgauging. The blowback from outsourcing our flying, during a labor dispute, with a regional pilot shortage and massive major hiring, would have blown this operation up even further, and there is a 0.00002% chance JB management would have done that. That is why RJ scope didn't take much negotiating capital. Yes it is important. The most important section. But in this case it wasn't a sole reason to vote yes. And our section 1 has plenty of holes in it anyway as has also been pointed out. So it was good, but not great by any means.
10-08-2019 | 11:59 AM
#84
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
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From: Airbus Capt
As Robin said, it was a short notice small window of opportunity to make a play to overnight add an already existing west coast network when other organic west coast strategies have so far failed to really materialize, and west coast access to gates/slots remains limited. This, coupled with merging with an airline with a similar culture/product made sense. Yes, it'd have been a big change from the "organic all the way" mantra. But it was an overnight solution to a thus far unsolved long term problem. That is in stark contrast to bringing on a fleet of outsourced RJs, in an upgauging slot/gate constrained environment, which wouldn't solve any issues that currently plague JetBlue. Both scenarios would cause a lot of issues at JetBlue...but at least the Virgin merger would have solved a major problem in the process.
You can't really use the attempted Virgin acquisition in an argument about protecting yourself from outsourced RJs. If JetBlue wanted outsourced RJs, they would have had them. But as pointed out multiple times, we don't have gate space or slots for RJs. We are upgauging (significantly)...not downgauging. The blowback from outsourcing our flying, during a labor dispute, with a regional pilot shortage and massive major hiring, would have blown this operation up even further, and there is a 0.00002% chance JB management would have done that. That is why RJ scope didn't take much negotiating capital. Yes it is important. The most important section. But in this case it wasn't a sole reason to vote yes. And our section 1 has plenty of holes in it anyway as has also been pointed out. So it was good, but not great by any means.
You can't really use the attempted Virgin acquisition in an argument about protecting yourself from outsourced RJs. If JetBlue wanted outsourced RJs, they would have had them. But as pointed out multiple times, we don't have gate space or slots for RJs. We are upgauging (significantly)...not downgauging. The blowback from outsourcing our flying, during a labor dispute, with a regional pilot shortage and massive major hiring, would have blown this operation up even further, and there is a 0.00002% chance JB management would have done that. That is why RJ scope didn't take much negotiating capital. Yes it is important. The most important section. But in this case it wasn't a sole reason to vote yes. And our section 1 has plenty of holes in it anyway as has also been pointed out. So it was good, but not great by any means.
10-08-2019 | 02:55 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
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From: Left,Right, Left, Right,Right,Left, Right, Left
10-08-2019 | 05:45 PM
#87
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 6,935
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From: Airbus Capt
You have a partial point, but the rest of what he wrote was spot on.
Also, not merging is not a business plan, it's a lie told to employees to make them believe they don't need a union and/or believe in "culture".
So attempting to acquire Virgin wasn't a change in business plan, just a violation of the fake culture.
Acquiring Virgin solved a perpetual problem for the company, trying to outsource RJs violates the laws of physics with respect to infrastructure, pilots, and their LCC cost-cutting business plan.
Also, not merging is not a business plan, it's a lie told to employees to make them believe they don't need a union and/or believe in "culture".
So attempting to acquire Virgin wasn't a change in business plan, just a violation of the fake culture.
Acquiring Virgin solved a perpetual problem for the company, trying to outsource RJs violates the laws of physics with respect to infrastructure, pilots, and their LCC cost-cutting business plan.
10-09-2019 | 04:12 AM
#90
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Joined: Aug 2007
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Likes: 7
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