Is Jetblue gonna take the money?
#21
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
I don’t have it in front of me, but I believe there’s an excerpt where circumstances beyond their control doesn’t include the state of the economy. So I’m sure that’s what ALPA will argue, and the company will have the opposite viewpoint.
Even one person furloughed is too many, but hopefully it doesn’t reach the point to those eligible for six months furlough pay.
Even one person furloughed is too many, but hopefully it doesn’t reach the point to those eligible for six months furlough pay.
Back then the arbitrator declared it was out of the companies control and allowed two months pay.
I was furloughed during that time, I will say that I found work quite quickly because starting on 9/12 I planned on being furloughed and started looking immediately. When my furlough came in November of that year, I was already on my way to a new job, but those who did not plan on the furlough were often a day late on getting on with their lives. Even those who were at the bottom of the list (not furloughed but close) experienced a less than desirable work situation as they were repeatedly displaced from base to base and sometimes to other equipment as the airline gyrated at its smaller state for awhile before the trajectory turned. Many of them would rather of found something stable to do in the mean time on a LOA rather than suffering that experience for a few years. You can always come back when/if things get better.
#22
Parking airplanes (and furloughing) due to passenger demand or loss of revenue / profits is considered “under company control”...
23.C.4
The term “circumstances beyond the control of the Company” includes, but is not limited to, a natural disaster; labor dispute (strike); grounding of a substantial number of the Company’s aircraft by a government agency; reduction in flying operations because of a decrease in available fuel supply or other critical materials due to either governmental action or commercial suppliers being unable to provide sufficient fuel or other critical materials for the Company’s operations; revocation of the Company’s operating certificate(s); war emergency; owner’s delay in delivery of aircraft scheduled for delivery or manufacturer’s delay in delivery of new aircraft scheduled for delivery.
...The term “circumstances beyond the control of the Company” shall not include the price of fuel or other supplies, the price of aircraft, the state of the economy, the financial state of the Company, the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company’s then-current operations.
23.C.4
The term “circumstances beyond the control of the Company” includes, but is not limited to, a natural disaster; labor dispute (strike); grounding of a substantial number of the Company’s aircraft by a government agency; reduction in flying operations because of a decrease in available fuel supply or other critical materials due to either governmental action or commercial suppliers being unable to provide sufficient fuel or other critical materials for the Company’s operations; revocation of the Company’s operating certificate(s); war emergency; owner’s delay in delivery of aircraft scheduled for delivery or manufacturer’s delay in delivery of new aircraft scheduled for delivery.
...The term “circumstances beyond the control of the Company” shall not include the price of fuel or other supplies, the price of aircraft, the state of the economy, the financial state of the Company, the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company’s then-current operations.
#23
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Parking airplanes (and furloughing) due to passenger demand or loss of revenue / profits is considered “under company control”...
23.C.4
The term “circumstances beyond the control of the Company” includes, but is not limited to, a natural disaster; labor dispute (strike); grounding of a substantial number of the Company’s aircraft by a government agency; reduction in flying operations because of a decrease in available fuel supply or other critical materials due to either governmental action or commercial suppliers being unable to provide sufficient fuel or other critical materials for the Company’s operations; revocation of the Company’s operating certificate(s); war emergency; owner’s delay in delivery of aircraft scheduled for delivery or manufacturer’s delay in delivery of new aircraft scheduled for delivery.
...The term “circumstances beyond the control of the Company” shall not include the price of fuel or other supplies, the price of aircraft, the state of the economy, the financial state of the Company, the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company’s then-current operations.
23.C.4
The term “circumstances beyond the control of the Company” includes, but is not limited to, a natural disaster; labor dispute (strike); grounding of a substantial number of the Company’s aircraft by a government agency; reduction in flying operations because of a decrease in available fuel supply or other critical materials due to either governmental action or commercial suppliers being unable to provide sufficient fuel or other critical materials for the Company’s operations; revocation of the Company’s operating certificate(s); war emergency; owner’s delay in delivery of aircraft scheduled for delivery or manufacturer’s delay in delivery of new aircraft scheduled for delivery.
...The term “circumstances beyond the control of the Company” shall not include the price of fuel or other supplies, the price of aircraft, the state of the economy, the financial state of the Company, the relative profitability or unprofitability of the Company’s then-current operations.
#24
He said that going forward, furlough protection would have to take the form of making it very specific and financially painful to furlough, without saying they can’t furlough.
Our furlough section clearly spells this out. Even in BK, the company is obligated to follow this section, unless we give it away as concessions or they take it in 1113. Will they follow the contract? That’s a different question altogether.
#25
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Agreed, and the industry-standard furlough clauses after 9/11 were written with that 20/20 hindsight. When my 9/11 airline was in BK, the lawyer from ALPA National told us our No-Furlough clause wasn’t worth the paper it was printed on. His exact words.
He said that going forward, furlough protection would have to take the form of making it very specific and financially painful to furlough, without saying they can’t furlough.
Our furlough section clearly spells this out. Even in BK, the company is obligated to follow this section, unless we give it away as concessions or they take it in 1113. Will they follow the contract? That’s a different question altogether.
He said that going forward, furlough protection would have to take the form of making it very specific and financially painful to furlough, without saying they can’t furlough.
Our furlough section clearly spells this out. Even in BK, the company is obligated to follow this section, unless we give it away as concessions or they take it in 1113. Will they follow the contract? That’s a different question altogether.
#26
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 81
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Posts: 530
Trying to add something positive to a B6 discussion.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...-companies.asp
B6 positioned well for the recovery with low debt, (see above article). B6 positioned well for future with A321LR/XLR and A220-300's, (see below article).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/deandon.../#2c6cb73067b9
Not trying to be critical of any other Airline, just trying to add some optimism to a B6 thread that is mostly negative and discussing furloughs. Hopefully all Airlines recover smoothly and nobody has to furlough. Good luck to all.
https://www.investopedia.com/ask/ans...-companies.asp
B6 positioned well for the recovery with low debt, (see above article). B6 positioned well for future with A321LR/XLR and A220-300's, (see below article).
https://www.forbes.com/sites/deandon.../#2c6cb73067b9
Not trying to be critical of any other Airline, just trying to add some optimism to a B6 thread that is mostly negative and discussing furloughs. Hopefully all Airlines recover smoothly and nobody has to furlough. Good luck to all.
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2011
Posts: 208
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