Another Term?
09-22-2021, 04:15 PM
#41
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by Climbto450
while I agree with you on the LOA12 issue we will have to respectfully disagree on the rest of your perspective. The MEC could have just accepted the offer from the company and passed LOA13 the fact that we voted on it unlike LOA12 showed me that this time the process worked. It wasn't a negotiation it was an offer, we turned it down. The company then decided to violate the CBA and move forward. We get to negotiate CBA 2.0 next year I hope to see the same strength that we showed on the LOA13 vote..
Further, LOA13 was indeed a negotiation. The MEC negotiated it with zero pilot polling or membership input — a major failure.
09-22-2021, 04:26 PM
#42
Covfefe
Joined APC: Jun 2015
Posts: 3,001
Originally Posted by V2500
That is incorrect. The MEC was absolutely required to submit LOA13 to the entire membership for a ratification vote. To do otherwise would have been a direct violation of the MEC policy manual. While keeping LOA12 secret from the pilots and skipping its ratification vote was indeed poor judgement, it was impossible with LOA13.
Further, LOA13 was indeed a negotiation. The MEC negotiated it with zero pilot polling or membership input — a major failure.
Further, LOA13 was indeed a negotiation. The MEC negotiated it with zero pilot polling or membership input — a major failure.
09-22-2021, 05:25 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by V2500
That is incorrect. The MEC was absolutely required to submit LOA13 to the entire membership for a ratification vote. To do otherwise would have been a direct violation of the MEC policy manual. While keeping LOA12 secret from the pilots and skipping its ratification vote was indeed poor judgement, it was impossible with LOA13.
Further, LOA13 was indeed a negotiation. The MEC negotiated it with zero pilot polling or membership input — a major failure.
Further, LOA13 was indeed a negotiation. The MEC negotiated it with zero pilot polling or membership input — a major failure.
09-22-2021, 06:56 PM
#44
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2017
Posts: 319
Originally Posted by Climbto450
Once again we will have to disagree. Yes the MEC may have helped formulate the offer with management however there was no negotiation once the offer came out hence why it was an offer plain and simple. You may have thought it was a negotiation as many did but it was an offer nothing more. I wish it were a negotiation we may have got somewhere if it was unfortunately it wasn't. As for LOA 13 yes you are correct as arguably LOA12 should have followed the same guidance as well. So the precedent was set in LOA12 to bypass a vote and yet the MEC didn't.
My problem is that the union seemed to think it was a WONDERFUL deal.
09-23-2021, 06:33 AM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by MainlineFlyer
My problem isn't that it was sent out for a vote.
My problem is that the union seemed to think it was a WONDERFUL deal.
My problem is that the union seemed to think it was a WONDERFUL deal.
Last edited by Climbto450; 09-23-2021 at 06:34 AM. Reason: I can't spell
09-23-2021, 07:05 AM
#46
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2013
Position: A320 Captain
Posts: 61
Originally Posted by Climbto450
Once again we will have to disagree. Yes the MEC may have helped formulate the offer with management however there was no negotiation once the offer came out hence why it was an offer plain and simple. You may have thought it was a negotiation as many did but it was an offer nothing more. I wish it were a negotiation we may have got somewhere if it was unfortunately it wasn't. As for LOA 13 yes you are correct as arguably LOA12 should have followed the same guidance as well. So the precedent was set in LOA12 to bypass a vote and yet the MEC didn't.
“…your elected representatives provided the negotiating committee direction for their meetings…” — Dec ’20
“Your negotiating committee last week reached an agreement in principle…” — Dec ’20
“Your negotiating committee and labor relations counsel met at the alpa national office…” — Jan ’21
“Next week, the committee will meet with the company to continue the bargaining process…” — Jan ’21
There were numerous other examples, perhaps most notably their 2-hour online all-pilot road show in Feb where the NC chairman spoke at great length about the negotiations between the MEC and the company that resulted in LOA13.
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