Originally Posted by BeatNavy

1F8 is a hell of a lot more than 9 routes. And 1F7 very much is up in the air. The case against it is very strong.

Originally Posted by WhistlePig

If that were the case, the arbiter would not have forced mediation. 1F7/1F8 is where I think the baby will be split.

Originally Posted by WhistlePig

If that were the case, the arbiter would not have forced mediation. 1F7/1F8 is where I think the baby will be split.

Originally Posted by Boomer

If this LOA passes, here are everyone’s takeaways:

Company - They can violate the contract at will, drag it out in court, and at the last possible moment throw out a bone to the MEC. The MEC will send it right to the membership for ratification, and even help sell it as a great deal with no downsides. Not only will the pilots settle for a small percentage of their actual damages, they’ll also vote to change the contract and let the violation continue indefinitely.

MEC/NC - The company will open with a low bid, and stay low. Don’t expect to gain more than about 1% even after a years worth of negotiations. When the company says something is off the table, believe them. Even when the pilots say no, they mean yes; they just want reassuring and maybe an extra one percent so they can feel like they are in control.

The membership - Always vote yes for the first offer. By the time it goes out for ratification the MEC has already decided there are no crumbs left to ask for. A no vote will not lead to a better offer.

Originally Posted by BeatNavy

Everybody should read through this. https://www.justice.gov/opa/pr/justi...n-airlines-and

The actual PDF of the lawsuit is pretty eye opening. The control AA can exert over JB, not just with regards to northeast flying, is not ideal.

The way the JV is structured, jetblue is disincentivized to launch its own trans-Atlantic flights, certainly with anything larger than a 321. JetBlue pulls revenue from AA flying 777s to LHR. JetBlue pilots get nothing from that. JetBlue gets revenue from a republic E175 flying an NEA flight under a CPA with AA. What do you think will happen when JetBlue’s smallest airplane is a 140 seater optimized for flights 2+ hours. Do we really think we will continue to fly short stuff on our metal once the RJ economics get better and the pilot shortage evens out? Our growth metrics in the LOA are a joke.

Without 1F8 relief, the NEA is at risk, and some of our best growth possibilities (WB international) are gone. They say only the 1F8 stuff is at risk, but really, is AA going to want to continue the NEA if they don’t get to feed their international? That’s the whole point of the NEA. And if 1F7 gets ruled in ALPAs favor….hooooboy the NEA is done. Either way, the company (really both AA and B6) won’t allow the NEA to not happen. They will ask for more relief and offer more, whether it’s 1F7 and 1F8 or just 1F8.

Remember, Chris Kenney put out an email 2/14/21 saying this is the end of the road there’s nothing left and it will be scary if we vote no. Here we are again 13 months later in the same spot. We have leverage. And this isn’t good for us regardless. We give this huge JV relief for a decade to partner with the largest carrier in the world and give jetblue the ability to pull revenue from both widebody international AND capacity purchase agreement RJs, while simultaneously getting rid of e190s, just think about how this COULD turn out in 3-5-7 years. Not saying it will. Right now the economics favor us getting AA’s slots in NYC. AA can exert a lot of control over JB around the entire JB network with this arrangement. The fact that B6ALPA thinks they have the nuclear option to shut this down with the LOA17 language is laughable.

Vote no. It’s the only logical vote. Protect jobs. These “collars” and weak LOAs don’t protect jobs. Chris Kenney doesn’t protect jobs. Selling scope relief for 3% and a few grand doesn’t protect jobs.

Originally Posted by WhistlePig

If that were the case, the arbiter would not have forced mediation. 1F7/1F8 is where I think the baby will be split.

Originally Posted by SaintNick

right now it might be but anything the Lr touches wouldn’t be allowed. And anything in Western Europe and South America when the xlr come.

Originally Posted by Bluedriver

Actually, it's anything the LR *can* touch.

Originally Posted by The701Express

The camel got its nose in the tent with LOA 12 and the creation of the NEA. The company's greed and disregard for us pilots tried to wiggle it in farther. While far from perfect, LOA 17 stops it from going any further, ties the company's hands more with the new collars for the whole NEA, and gives us pilots the ability to kill the NEA in eight years just by withholding consent for it to continue. That's an eternity from now, but it's an expiration date for temporary scope relief that could give us a huge amount of leverage should the company need it to continue. That's no guarantee, but neither was Delta's profit sharing when it began.

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