Originally Posted by Bgood (Post 3551725)

Average of 319/320/321 since we don't separate them

Originally Posted by panpanpan (Post 3551728)

We don’t have 319s so there’s that. How about we include the 767 and A350 too.

Originally Posted by panpanpan (Post 3551728)

We don’t have 319s so there’s that. How about we include the 767 and A350 too.

Originally Posted by Bgood (Post 3551777)

huh? I don't know what your point is but the rates that we have to compare is 320/321 or 737s if they didnt have those Airbus. If you want to include widebodies to prove a point then be my guess. The person is not wrong, which is my point.

Originally Posted by panpanpan (Post 3551723)

Look at A321 rates. How are our rates higher than Delta’s?

Originally Posted by panpanpan (Post 3551813)

My point is we do not have 319s so why include them in the average? If you average Delta’s current 321 and 320 rates they are higher than our current rates. Lets look at year 5 Captain for example: 321/320 at DAL averages to 265. At JB it is 259.

So, I don’t understand how PSU flyer thinks our current rates are higher than Delta’s? Am I missing something here? Or is including the 319 a way to justify being a discount pilot? If you want to include the 737 their rates are even higher.

Originally Posted by I was inverted (Post 3551496)

Does frontier get a discount on gas or airplanes because they are a ULCC? Then why should they get a discount on labor? Costs are costs. Labor is what it is. SWA for years was always the best paid narrowbody pilots, even when they weren’t as large as they are now and when they were lower cost. By you thinking that you deserve less “because you aren’t delta” and “don’t have the revenue streams of delta” or whatever, they have succeeded in brainwashing you (not unique to you, I’ve heard jetblue guys say the same thing). Frontier and spirit and allegiant had some of the best margins pre covid. In other words, they had the highest percentage of profit (revenue minus expenses). So on a per pilot basis, their revenues/profits were higher than at other carriers. So don’t think bigger airlines always have to pay more, and smaller pays less. Startups usually get a pass, but that’s generally because they give equity in exchange for pay.

unfortunately ULCCs and LCCs have been preying on the “well it’s better than my regional and i get to fly an Airbus” mentality to underpay pilots for a long time. Demand more. Know your worth. You are no less of a pilot than a delta guy. Demand to be compensated accordingly. If a business model doesn’t work with labor subsidizing the business, then eff that business, it deserves to go under. Too many guys at ULCC/LCCs regurgitate the “low cost is our competitive advantage, so we need to make less for the business to succeed so we can grow and be successful” line of garbage. Your job is to fly airplanes safely and make as much money as you can doing what you do, at least in line with what you are worth across the industry. The company’s job is to maximize profits and shareholder return. You let them do their job.

Would you write a check to Barry Biffle or Bill Franke for $10k to fund a payment on a new Rolls? No. So why make $10k less a year (or however much the difference is) than what you are worth? It’s effectively the same thing. Don’t work for less money so that other people make more money.

Originally Posted by PSU Flyer (Post 3551828)

First of all, my comment was in response to your post which implied we will never be able to get anywhere near Delta’s pay rates. I think that’s a terrible argument because we’re very to close to their rates already. I don’t think most people realize how close we really are.

Now, actual numbers (standard rounding):
A220-300
B6 - $271
DL- $269

A320
B6 - $283
DL - $274

A321
DL - $286
B6 - $283

Pretty close, wouldn’t you agree? I’d say there’s no reason we shouldn’t be able to match their pay rates, which was my whole point.

That being said, we should definitely be targeting their A321 rates.

Originally Posted by GPullR (Post 3551837)

Sorry, but the only reason you are the same is because delta hasn't had a pay increase in 4 years !! Hello!!!

Originally Posted by GPullR (Post 3551837)

Sorry, but the only reason you are the same is because delta hasn't had a pay increase in 4 years !! Hello!!!