Worth the switch?
11-25-2022, 09:12 PM
#11
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 261
Originally Posted by brog1330
Alright this will sound ridiculous to some. I’m an infant in the 121 world, I’ve gained about 450 hours at my regional, been here a year and a half. I make a good amount now and have a pretty decent QOL im top 25% of FO’s in my base. I have a CJO from JetBlue, but my end goal is ideally a legacy so JetBlue will be a stepping stone more then likely. Are the work rules that much better at JetBlue? I’ve tried to do as much research as I can here to piece together the contract without actually seeing it, and it really doesn’t seem bad. I just don’t want to sit reserve for 6 years commuting am I better off just getting time at the regional? I’m young (would be bottom half of class at JB) and I’m a commuter from FL, currently commute at the regional.
Any advice would be truly appreciated as I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place on a decision, 2 years ago getting an opportunity to interview with this level of experience would of been unheard of, much less a CJO. This industry doesn’t make sense anymore, and I’ve never seen it in a hard time which has me feeling my choice may be wrong one way or the other.
Any advice would be truly appreciated as I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place on a decision, 2 years ago getting an opportunity to interview with this level of experience would of been unheard of, much less a CJO. This industry doesn’t make sense anymore, and I’ve never seen it in a hard time which has me feeling my choice may be wrong one way or the other.
11-26-2022, 05:12 AM
#12
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 988
My question to the OP is: What is it about the legacies that attracts you? Specifically. Is there one in particular? Is it bases near where you live? Widebodies? Pay and PS? Retirements? Depending on how you answer those questions will determine your answer. JB will be a much different airline in 3 years than it is right now. If the government gets out of the way, we'll almost double our size, double or bases most likely, and have multiple European cities and probably Hawaii on our route map. Jetblue is currently negotiating with their pilots for an extension of the current CBA in lieu of a full fledged contract renegotiation. There are only 3 areas of discussion: Pay, per diem and profit sharing. Others have offered points about PIC/SIC differences. All valid. I'd just throw in what is it about the "legacies" that entices you over what JB is potentially growing into? Important word is potential. This company has a history of digging in their heels, but we're in the very best environment we'll have in our career to negotiate a top shelf JCBA, and an extension before that which will encourage people to stay, and more importantly, get hired here in the first place.
We used to have 10K applications on file. I've heard thats down to a few hundred right now. The regional pay explosion has dried up the pool. That's not conducive for an airline stating they want to hire 1000 pilots next year. Just remember, everything looked great in 2019 before COVID showed up. We're about to enter another recession in 2023. You never know when the good times dry up, no matter what it looks like right now. GL in your decision.
We used to have 10K applications on file. I've heard thats down to a few hundred right now. The regional pay explosion has dried up the pool. That's not conducive for an airline stating they want to hire 1000 pilots next year. Just remember, everything looked great in 2019 before COVID showed up. We're about to enter another recession in 2023. You never know when the good times dry up, no matter what it looks like right now. GL in your decision.
11-26-2022, 05:20 AM
#13
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: blueJet
Posts: 4,511
Originally Posted by BunkerF16
My question to the OP is: What is it about the legacies that attracts you? Specifically. Is there one in particular? Is it bases near where you live? Widebodies? Pay and PS? Retirements? Depending on how you answer those questions will determine your answer. JB will be a much different airline in 3 years than it is right now. If the government gets out of the way, we'll almost double our size, double or bases most likely, and have multiple European cities and probably Hawaii on our route map. Jetblue is currently negotiating with their pilots for an extension of the current CBA in lieu of a full fledged contract renegotiation. There are only 3 areas of discussion: Pay, per diem and profit sharing. Others have offered points about PIC/SIC differences. All valid. I'd just throw in what is it about the "legacies" that entices you over what JB is potentially growing into? Important word is potential. This company has a history of digging in their heels, but we're in the very best environment we'll have in our career to negotiate a top shelf JCBA, and an extension before that which will encourage people to stay, and more importantly, get hired here in the first place.
We used to have 10K applications on file. I've heard thats down to a few hundred right now. The regional pay explosion has dried up the pool. That's not conducive for an airline stating they want to hire 1000 pilots next year. Just remember, everything looked great in 2019 before COVID showed up. We're about to enter another recession in 2023. You never know when the good times dry up, no matter what it looks like right now. GL in your decision.
We used to have 10K applications on file. I've heard thats down to a few hundred right now. The regional pay explosion has dried up the pool. That's not conducive for an airline stating they want to hire 1000 pilots next year. Just remember, everything looked great in 2019 before COVID showed up. We're about to enter another recession in 2023. You never know when the good times dry up, no matter what it looks like right now. GL in your decision.
In three years Jetblue will be replacing CrewTrac with a crew scheduling system that Joanna says is supposed to work.
That’s right… 2025 is gonna be a big year for JetBlue.
11-26-2022, 05:36 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Posts: 988
Originally Posted by Boomer
Bunker forgot to add:
In three years Jetblue will be replacing CrewTrac with a crew scheduling system that Joanna says is supposed to work.
That’s right… 2025 is gonna be a big year for JetBlue.
In three years Jetblue will be replacing CrewTrac with a crew scheduling system that Joanna says is supposed to work.
That’s right… 2025 is gonna be a big year for JetBlue.
11-26-2022, 06:01 AM
#15
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Position: B777 CA
Posts: 735
Originally Posted by FriendlyPilot
Take the JB job. They will get you a type rating for free and within a year you will be offered a job at United or Delta. That’s been the pattern. One guy I know literally got hired at United a week after getting his type at Allegiant. Would be shocked if you had to spend more than 18 months at JB. United seems to be hiring like crazy from the likes of JB, Spirit, Allegiant, and AA feeder carriers.
11-26-2022, 07:49 AM
#16
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 75
Originally Posted by Boeing Aviator
I’m a United pilot. Agree 100 with above. United has dropped 4 year degree, TPIC and lowered total time to 2350. Hiring plans for 8000 over next five years. Just finished recurrent last week. Met lots of JetBlue pilots interviewing and in indoc.
You fly a Boeing so judgment must be questionable. 😂
Joking. But I will say that that info is a bit anecdotal to tell the OP, a low time guy, to make his decision based on that. JetBlue does send a lot of guys to United and the others, but even the guys that you have seen at United lately, I would bet a paycheck that the majority of them have a good amount of TPIC time, probably obtained from a regional before coming to jetBlue.
TPIC still seems to be the golden ticket to the big three and people who are getting hired from JetBlue into the big three have usually followed that model.
Regional SIC time —-> Regional PIC time —-> JB Airbus type —-> big three
It’s a bit disingenuous to encourage the OP with only 400 hours of 121 time, and no TPIC time, that he’s going to come to JetBlue and immediately (or even in 2-3 years) be hireable by one of the big three. Numbers say differently so does recent history.
Just my opinion, but being a low time 121 guy his golden ticket is not coming to JetBlue to be an FO for 2-3 years and immediately getting called by United. Even with the legacies dropping the PIC requirement, it’s not happening more than a handful of times and majority of classes are still previous regional captains and other airline captains with TPIC.
At this point, he’s halfway to being able to upgrade at his regional. If, after that, he comes to jetBlue then he is so much more hireable to the big three then if he just comes here and hasta set another five years before he upgrades at B6 to have that on his résumé.
Last edited by DocVoliday; 11-26-2022 at 07:53 AM. Reason: Proofing
11-26-2022, 09:02 AM
#17
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by brog1330
Alright this will sound ridiculous to some. I’m an infant in the 121 world, I’ve gained about 450 hours at my regional, been here a year and a half. I make a good amount now and have a pretty decent QOL im top 25% of FO’s in my base. I have a CJO from JetBlue, but my end goal is ideally a legacy so JetBlue will be a stepping stone more then likely. Are the work rules that much better at JetBlue? I’ve tried to do as much research as I can here to piece together the contract without actually seeing it, and it really doesn’t seem bad. I just don’t want to sit reserve for 6 years commuting am I better off just getting time at the regional? I’m young (would be bottom half of class at JB) and I’m a commuter from FL, currently commute at the regional.
Any advice would be truly appreciated as I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place on a decision, 2 years ago getting an opportunity to interview with this level of experience would of been unheard of, much less a CJO. This industry doesn’t make sense anymore, and I’ve never seen it in a hard time which has me feeling my choice may be wrong one way or the other.
Any advice would be truly appreciated as I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place on a decision, 2 years ago getting an opportunity to interview with this level of experience would of been unheard of, much less a CJO. This industry doesn’t make sense anymore, and I’ve never seen it in a hard time which has me feeling my choice may be wrong one way or the other.
Thats easy. (Not in a rude way) you don’t really want to stay at JetBlue so why bother.
You are comfortable enough now to wait it out for what you really want.
11-26-2022, 09:04 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2012
Position: 190 captain and “Pro-pilot”
Posts: 2,918
Originally Posted by BunkerF16
My question to the OP is: What is it about the legacies that attracts you? Specifically. Is there one in particular? Is it bases near where you live? Widebodies? Pay and PS? Retirements? Depending on how you answer those questions will determine your answer. JB will be a much different airline in 3 years than it is right now. If the government gets out of the way, we'll almost double our size, double or bases most likely, and have multiple European cities and probably Hawaii on our route map. Jetblue is currently negotiating with their pilots for an extension of the current CBA in lieu of a full fledged contract renegotiation. There are only 3 areas of discussion: Pay, per diem and profit sharing. Others have offered points about PIC/SIC differences. All valid. I'd just throw in what is it about the "legacies" that entices you over what JB is potentially growing into? Important word is potential. This company has a history of digging in their heels, but we're in the very best environment we'll have in our career to negotiate a top shelf JCBA, and an extension before that which will encourage people to stay, and more importantly, get hired here in the first place.
We used to have 10K applications on file. I've heard thats down to a few hundred right now. The regional pay explosion has dried up the pool. That's not conducive for an airline stating they want to hire 1000 pilots next year. Just remember, everything looked great in 2019 before COVID showed up. We're about to enter another recession in 2023. You never know when the good times dry up, no matter what it looks like right now. GL in your decision.
We used to have 10K applications on file. I've heard thats down to a few hundred right now. The regional pay explosion has dried up the pool. That's not conducive for an airline stating they want to hire 1000 pilots next year. Just remember, everything looked great in 2019 before COVID showed up. We're about to enter another recession in 2023. You never know when the good times dry up, no matter what it looks like right now. GL in your decision.
The only problem is you would be planning on what could be vs what is. We know what the big guys are and what they have. But we are not 100% sure what JetBlue will be. I think you are right but it’s definitely not certain.
11-26-2022, 09:06 AM
#19
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,880
Originally Posted by IAFDOF
I agree, except that if you come here knowing you’re leaving, then nothing this company does will keep you here. I’m pretty sure he said he has no intention of staying, so he’s potentially taking a training slot from someone who actually wants to be here, thus kinda hosing them. Ergo…
Even if someone comes here planning to leave, it doesn't mean they WILL leave. Up to management to make JB worth staying at.
11-26-2022, 09:26 AM
#20
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2015
Position: Gear slinger
Posts: 2,897
Originally Posted by brog1330
Alright this will sound ridiculous to some. I’m an infant in the 121 world, I’ve gained about 450 hours at my regional, been here a year and a half. I make a good amount now and have a pretty decent QOL im top 25% of FO’s in my base. I have a CJO from JetBlue, but my end goal is ideally a legacy so JetBlue will be a stepping stone more then likely. Are the work rules that much better at JetBlue? I’ve tried to do as much research as I can here to piece together the contract without actually seeing it, and it really doesn’t seem bad. I just don’t want to sit reserve for 6 years commuting am I better off just getting time at the regional? I’m young (would be bottom half of class at JB) and I’m a commuter from FL, currently commute at the regional.
Any advice would be truly appreciated as I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place on a decision, 2 years ago getting an opportunity to interview with this level of experience would of been unheard of, much less a CJO. This industry doesn’t make sense anymore, and I’ve never seen it in a hard time which has me feeling my choice may be wrong one way or the other.
Any advice would be truly appreciated as I feel like I’m between a rock and a hard place on a decision, 2 years ago getting an opportunity to interview with this level of experience would of been unheard of, much less a CJO. This industry doesn’t make sense anymore, and I’ve never seen it in a hard time which has me feeling my choice may be wrong one way or the other.
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