New bases / Expansion
07-03-2023, 05:18 PM
#261
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2021
Posts: 56
Originally Posted by disenchantMINT
I think you missed my point or we talked past each other. The company uses in base layovers in order to reduce total credit. I didn't suggest canceling the hotel reduces credit. Instead of a turn paying 9 hours, they tack on 2-3 more days at 3-4 hours a day to make a min-credit trip. The pocket change hotel cancel buyback doesn't make up for the credit lost by this arrangement.
Not to mention that your figure was factually inaccurate. The highest paid CA at JB would require 9:22 to earn 50 bucks. Don't inflate your self-worth.
For the NK folks facing the move over to JB, rest assured that idiots like this are few, far between, and typically too chicken ******* to say this in person. Most JB pilots are just as nice and accommodating as all the NK folks I have met in my time flying on youz guys. Every airline has a few guys who got the TBNT at other places and will forever be grumpy.
07-04-2023, 03:15 AM
#262
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: 320 F.O.
Posts: 1,386
Originally Posted by Mach10
ACTUALLY, what you did was disparage all Spirit pilots and insinuate that they are a "cheaper" pilot group than yours. Pretty low-taste comment in your last sentence. Thankfully, the majority of JB pilots don't express themselves like you do.
Not to mention that your figure was factually inaccurate. The highest paid CA at JB would require 9:22 to earn 50 bucks. Don't inflate your self-worth.
For the NK folks facing the move over to JB, rest assured that idiots like this are few, far between, and typically too chicken ******* to say this in person. Most JB pilots are just as nice and accommodating as all the NK folks I have met in my time flying on youz guys. Every airline has a few guys who got the TBNT at other places and will forever be grumpy.
Not to mention that your figure was factually inaccurate. The highest paid CA at JB would require 9:22 to earn 50 bucks. Don't inflate your self-worth.
For the NK folks facing the move over to JB, rest assured that idiots like this are few, far between, and typically too chicken ******* to say this in person. Most JB pilots are just as nice and accommodating as all the NK folks I have met in my time flying on youz guys. Every airline has a few guys who got the TBNT at other places and will forever be grumpy.
07-04-2023, 04:47 AM
#263
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,887
Originally Posted by flosd
The company saving money on pairings is due to the ADG, not in-base layovers.
07-04-2023, 05:55 AM
#264
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,017
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
They are using in-base layovers as a way to further utilize the ADG to reduce or level credit per day.
If pairings that start on Tuesdays paid double, we know they'd make sure to build as few as possible. Any other rig we negotiate will be "optimized" the same way. We need to see a few moves ahead and get rules in place to protect our QOL.
07-04-2023, 08:10 AM
#265
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,513
Originally Posted by todd1200
Exactly. They just stumbled onto in-base layovers and realized they're a great way to minimize soft time.
If pairings that start on Tuesdays paid double, we know they'd make sure to build as few as possible. Any other rig we negotiate will be "optimized" the same way. We need to see a few moves ahead and get rules in place to protect our QOL.
If pairings that start on Tuesdays paid double, we know they'd make sure to build as few as possible. Any other rig we negotiate will be "optimized" the same way. We need to see a few moves ahead and get rules in place to protect our QOL.
stumbled? No they were lead there by our own scheduling committee. I don’t think a lot of people know this but ALPA is directly at fault for this colossal f up. No one will ever be held accountable.
07-04-2023, 08:25 AM
#266
Perennial Reserve
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 11,553
Originally Posted by 11atsomto
Maybe it will be easier for our Spirit brothers to see if I use a real example:
A. Day 1 (day pairing) B. Day 1 (4 day pairing)
JFK-ANU. JFK-ANU
ANU- JFK DH. ANU-JFK DH
credit 8:52. JFK IN BASE overnight
Separate (pairing 3 day).
A. Day 2 Day 2
JFK-SMF JFK-SMF
SMF overnight. SMF overnight
a Day 3-4 Redeye. Day 3-4 redye
SMF-JFK. SMF-JFK
Credit 15:00 (3 day min)
Total Credit 23:52. Total Credit: 20:47
For a 12 year Captain the company saves $992 and for a 6 year FO who could hold the more productive side about $621 for a total of $1613...so yeah I think the hotel cost is chump change.
A. Day 1 (day pairing) B. Day 1 (4 day pairing)
JFK-ANU. JFK-ANU
ANU- JFK DH. ANU-JFK DH
credit 8:52. JFK IN BASE overnight
Separate (pairing 3 day).
A. Day 2 Day 2
JFK-SMF JFK-SMF
SMF overnight. SMF overnight
a Day 3-4 Redeye. Day 3-4 redye
SMF-JFK. SMF-JFK
Credit 15:00 (3 day min)
Total Credit 23:52. Total Credit: 20:47
For a 12 year Captain the company saves $992 and for a 6 year FO who could hold the more productive side about $621 for a total of $1613...so yeah I think the hotel cost is chump change.
07-04-2023, 08:43 AM
#267
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,887
Originally Posted by RiddleEagle18
stumbled? No they were lead there by our own scheduling committee. I don’t think a lot of people know this but ALPA is directly at fault for this colossal f up. No one will ever be held accountable.
07-04-2023, 08:46 AM
#268
The REAL Bluedriver
Joined APC: Sep 2011
Position: Airbus Capt
Posts: 6,887
Originally Posted by Excargodog
so fix the pairing problem. As a commuter if I’m going to overnight at home anyway and sleep in my own bed anyway what is the downside to me getting paid for a hotel room the company avoids paying for?
Your hotel issue is small potatoes compared to the fight and the problem that is in-base layovers.
07-04-2023, 09:40 AM
#269
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,513
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
Who and why would someone from B6 ALPA do this?
when the 220 came online the company wanted relief to build only day turns as the plane just went back and forth from bos-tpa and a couple other cities.
the ALPA scheduling committee told them the optimizer could build trips with inbase layovers.
The company turned the option on and the rest is history.
07-04-2023, 09:43 AM
#270
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,513
Originally Posted by Bluedriver
You missed the point. "We" can't fix the pairing without probably a prohibition on in-base layovers. The company has said in some conversations they will NEVER give them up. So it's gonna be quite a fight.
Your hotel issue is small potatoes compared to the fight and the problem that is in-base layovers.
Your hotel issue is small potatoes compared to the fight and the problem that is in-base layovers.
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