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-   -   F9/NK rises like a Phoenix (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/jetblue/148485-f9-nk-rises-like-phoenix.html)

rickair7777 10-25-2024 06:43 AM


Originally Posted by Clear Right (Post 3846832)
But I have a feeling the B6 C-Suite would be forced to take a back seat to AS leadership.

I have a feeling you're right. While I think the HAL acquisition was a good business call (risky but necessary to bulk up to avoid getting squeezed out in the long run) it's also partly a vanity project for the AS top dogs. They didn't put themselves in charge of a (partly) global airline just to hand the keys over to somebody else (they're young).

Adding B6 to our mix would certainly improve our critical mass, and long-term ability to swim in the deep end with the big four, but our leaders would probably consider it a "nice to have", not an existential survival need. So they could probably take it or leave it, at least as things stand now.

rickair7777 10-25-2024 06:46 AM

I suspect this will be a last gasp of the activists currently installed at DOJ and FTC. They'll be out if the election doesn't start heading their way, only a few days to go.

High fares are probably due to inflation, labor getting paid more, and lack of NB capacity due to boeing.

Flyby1206 10-25-2024 07:37 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3847383)
I have a feeling you're right. While I think the HAL acquisition was a good business call (risky but necessary to bulk up to avoid getting squeezed out in the long run) it's also partly a vanity project for the AS top dogs. They didn't put them selves in charge of (partly) global airline just to hand the keys over to somebody else (they're young).

Adding B6 to our mix would certainly improve our critical mass, and long-term ability to swim in the deep end with the big four, but our leaders would probably consider it a "nice to have", not an existential survival need. So they could probably take it or leave it, at least as things stand now.

During the NK/JB court hearings it was stated that JB was considering F9, NK, AS, and one unnamed carrier for merger partners. The rumors goes that AS and JB leadership couldnt agree on who would ultimately be in charge, where corp HQ would be, surviving brand, etc. Nobody wanted to give up the reigns... I think now JB has been humbled a bit and has an activist sitting on the BOD to keep them in line. Maybe we will see the AS/JB in a few years when things settle down

Salukidawg 10-25-2024 07:44 AM

Forget AS at this point. You all couldn't agree on who would run the combined Airline anyway. Why not wait for F9/NK to shake out and then merge with them? Full Airbus fleet and a balanced domestic route network spread evenly throughout the country. AS/B6 would be a barbell network. Strong on the opposite coasts without much of anything in the middle of the country. It would be too reliant on transcons only and that's not sustainable against the Big 4 IMO.

Flyby1206 10-25-2024 07:51 AM


Originally Posted by Salukidawg (Post 3847419)
Forget AS at this point. You all couldn't agree on who would run the combined Airline anyway. Why not wait for F9/NK to shake out and then merge with them? Full Airbus fleet and a balanced domestic route network spread evenly throughout the country. AS/B6 would be a barbell network. Strong on the opposite coasts without much of anything in the middle of the country. It would be too reliant on transcons only and that's not sustainable against the Big 4 IMO.

I could see that, assuming F9/NK happens and they move upmarket with the onboard product. Otherwise we'll potentially be back where we started with JB trying to merge with a sacred ULCC and get shot down by the court. Either way, probably 3yrs before AS or F9/NK would be ready to dance.

rickair7777 10-25-2024 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by Flyby1206 (Post 3847408)
The rumors goes that AS and JB leadership couldnt agree on who would ultimately be in charge, where corp HQ would be, surviving brand, etc. Nobody wanted to give up the reigns...

We heard that too.

rickair7777 10-25-2024 08:09 AM


Originally Posted by Salukidawg (Post 3847419)
Forget AS at this point. You all couldn't agree on who would run the combined Airline anyway. Why not wait for F9/NK to shake out and then merge with them? Full Airbus fleet and a balanced domestic route network spread evenly throughout the country. AS/B6 would be a barbell network. Strong on the opposite coasts without much of anything in the middle of the country. It would be too reliant on transcons only and that's not sustainable against the Big 4 IMO.

AS has regional feed, which can help with the flyover states. In a hypothetical merger the unions would have to consider whether it might be in everyone's best interest to allow *proportional* growth of the RJ feed to help flesh out the lower density states.

While there was some hope that the regionals would fail and it would all go in-house, the legacies bent over backwards to keep them on life support for better days, so low cost outsourced feed is just a business reality in the competitive landscape going forward.

Anonymous2092 10-25-2024 08:21 AM


Originally Posted by Clear Right (Post 3846832)
^^^This^^^ It’s only a matter of time before AS/HA/B6 merge (if F9/NK merge). It may also be dependent on the next administration;), and of course the C-Suite ego’s on which brand name survives/rules. But I have a feeling the B6 C-Suite would be forced to take a back seat to AS leadership.

The only wildcard might be for a couple of activist investors to force a WN/B6 merger to force B6 to larger scale, and bring WN into the next level of premium offerings, trans-Atlantic, and fleet diversity with all of Boeing’s issues.

Will be an interesting few years to say the least.

I've been saying this since Elliot got their hands on WN. It would make perfect sense for them to be able to get into the europe/carribean market, get Airbus order slots (320, and 220), bake "mini mint" into their newer 73's on certain routes to test out the demand, and or move B6's mint product to some routes that they know would have demand for premium products short term. I think B6 has everything they need.

PineappleXpres 10-25-2024 08:27 AM


Originally Posted by rickair7777 (Post 3847431)
AS has regional feed, which can help with the flyover states. In a hypothetical merger the unions would have to consider whether it might be in everyone's best interest to allow *proportional* growth of the RJ feed to help flesh out the lower density states.

While there was some hope that the regionals would fail and it would all go in-house, the legacies bent over backwards to keep them on life support for better days, so low cost outsourced feed is just a business reality in the competitive landscape going forward.

HNL, ANC, SEA, PDX, LAX (both), FLL/MCO, BOS/JFK for a combined network carrier hub couldn’t even try and establish 1 (dare I say 2) hub in between? What is the economic mountain that makes that unfeasible? ORD, AUS, CVG, MCI, STL all seem feasible.

rickair7777 10-25-2024 08:36 AM


Originally Posted by PineappleXpres (Post 3847440)
HNL, ANC, SEA, PDX, LAX (both), FLL/MCO, BOS/JFK for a combined network carrier hub couldn’t even try and establish 1 (dare I say 2) hub in between? What is the economic mountain that makes that unfeasible? ORD, AUS, CVG, MCI, STL all seem feasible.

I agree, but might need RJ feed to bring in the low density market in places like that.


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