Transcon Turns
07-01-2005, 09:17 AM
#51
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Lennon
Regardless of the motivation, "Realistic" has brought forth interesting and thought provoking discussion. Do you have anything besides "nanner nanner" and personal attacks , "Dude"?
Last edited by kinetic; 07-01-2005 at 09:35 AM.
07-01-2005, 07:25 PM
#52
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Blue 2
Interesting. 50 to 70 crews … 52 crews now at LGB.
"And yet, we reserves are expected to treat the LA Basin as if it were a co-base."
Are you saying the LGB reserves are required to respond to LGB/ONT/BUR? If that is true you are correct to complain, I don't believe it is in the LGB charter to do that.
"And yet, we reserves are expected to treat the LA Basin as if it were a co-base."
Are you saying the LGB reserves are required to respond to LGB/ONT/BUR? If that is true you are correct to complain, I don't believe it is in the LGB charter to do that.
LGB reserves positively cover ONT and BUR!
07-01-2005, 09:14 PM
#53
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by kinetic
Yes, It will stand. Because 99% of us are not Tools. We understand and like the system or we are working from the inside to fix the imperfections. So, we finally see your motivation. You say you took the job here because you were misinformed. That means you are saying you are gullible and dumb. I don't think you are. You are just muckraking to cause dissent. I have saved crummy schedules dozens of times with FLICA. If you want to make money go to New York. Your running on emtpy, Dude.
It's a lot more than just my desire because if 85 hours straight pay is where we make the cut over then everyone below 85 hours gets a raise and everyone over 85 hours gets a pay cut. That's many more pilots than just me and what about the pilots who are looking at years of reserve ahead?
What's interesting is just how hard and how nasty people will fight for premium pay. Just watch friendly readers. You'll see greed on a aviation scale.
My suggestions are based upon an industry standard slope. The nasty comments against my suggestions are just as firmly based in greed as my so called sense of fair play.
Let's find out what we all would have made at straight pay (and I hope we don't have morons who think that I'm suggesting that we ALL make the same hourly rate) versus what we all DID make at premium pay. We can do it. We're Jetblue and we have computers and stuff.
THEN....
let's publish the entire spreadsheet and take a vote.
Sound good?
Will someone please respond to my constant query of why a 75 hour Jetblue captain makes $1500 less per year than a 75 hour Frontier captain while a 95
hour Jetblue captain makes $11,000 more per year than a 95 hour Frontier captain.
Just please answer that question. Are they better pilots? Do they work harder? Do they have bigger units? I just don't understand.
What I DO know is that the Frontier reserves are not working as hard as we do.
With regard to MY leading a union effort....
I don't have the mental stamina anymore. When I say that the pay system won't stand, I'm only making a prediction. There will be younger more angry pilots who step up.
Here's a wager:
I will offer six of my options for one of your options (6 to 1) that not only are we unionized but that premium pay is toast within 3 years.
Any takers?
07-02-2005, 07:13 AM
#55
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: 320, Left Seat
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by automatique
Do you think the company Lear-Jets people out here from JFK to cover a sick call, time-out, or whatever?
LGB reserves positively cover ONT and BUR!
LGB reserves positively cover ONT and BUR!
Last edited by Blue 2; 07-02-2005 at 07:31 AM.
07-02-2005, 07:31 AM
#56
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jun 2005
Position: 320, Left Seat
Posts: 55
Realistic
"Will someone please respond to my constant query of why a 75 hour Jetblue captain makes $1500 less per year than a 75 hour Frontier captain while a 95 hour Jetblue captain makes $11,000 more per year than a 95 hour Frontier captain."
Sure they have a different contract. That was easy.
Are you proposing to equal the hours so we will be sure everyone at the same seniority level gets the same pay?
Still have not told me how many 95 hour x 12 month line Captains we have here at JB. I keep saying line Captains because that is what the back key thing tells me at the UA/Frontier pay scale page.
Will the pay system change? With some good ideas from interested people, like you maybe, it will but lets try to raise everybody not lower some to raise others.
I'm up for the published spreadsheet idea as long as you have the whole process thought out, that's why I keep asking questions.
Sure they have a different contract. That was easy.
Are you proposing to equal the hours so we will be sure everyone at the same seniority level gets the same pay?
Still have not told me how many 95 hour x 12 month line Captains we have here at JB. I keep saying line Captains because that is what the back key thing tells me at the UA/Frontier pay scale page.
Will the pay system change? With some good ideas from interested people, like you maybe, it will but lets try to raise everybody not lower some to raise others.
I'm up for the published spreadsheet idea as long as you have the whole process thought out, that's why I keep asking questions.
Last edited by Blue 2; 07-02-2005 at 07:36 AM.
07-02-2005, 08:26 AM
#57
Line Holder
Joined APC: Jul 2005
Position: A320 Left seat
Posts: 44
Realistic/aka: Pessimistic/aka Mr. Negative
Jeez where do I start?? Realistic you must be a real pleasure to live or work with. Does ANYTHING please you??
You do bring up many good points but with that constant negative slant. ALWAYS the negative slant. Is there something in the water in SoCal??
You write pretty well, so I have a suggestion: become a writer for a political organization. This way you can make good use of your ability to slant everything you put into print. You will have to learn to use a positive slant as well as your well-practiced negative, this may be too big of a change for you.
As for your 'inquiry' about the difference between pay at Frontier and JetBlue, why the comparison?? We are not Frontier, they are not JetBlue.
Why do you think the the pay rates and type of compensation should be the same or even similar?? If you think you should be compensated like those at Frontier, apply there, say goodbye to JetBlue, there will be few damp eyes here!
And the answer is that the creators of JetBlue are very smart and aware of the most common and strongest of human emotions: GREED [this is a good thing!!] JetBlue has an investment in us, and like you have stated, it is cheaper to pay premium pay than to hire and train an additional crewmember, so do you have a problem with smart management??
At JetBlue if you want to make some more $$ then you work more and at a premium rate, if you want to back off for a month or two, then you make less, and someone else who wants to make some premium time can work more. This seems very fair and equitable to me. You seem to think that you are owed some different compensation that was explained to you when you were offered a job here.
If I were able to pick up an additional 5:40 turn for straight time instead of for premium pay would I?? Doubtful. My time at home is worth more. But at premium pay, yes, I will stay another day at work. If I'm working hard, I want to be compensated at a higher rate for my extra work. This is all good business and good for us too.
You just can't see it. You are so negative that if you got everything that you whine and complain about here, then you would just find something else to complain about.
Get some professional help. Get another/different job. It amazes me that you post all over these pilot forums and everywhere it is always the same negative, poor-me stuff that you made the decision to join up for. If you made a mistake coming to JetBlue, then fix it, and go elsewhere.
This is a great place to work, and in this incredibly difficult economic environment the only place I would like to be.
Happy to be here, there are a few 'flies in the ointment' but only a few.
YOU made the decision to be LGB based, not JetBlue, quite whining about your decision to be at LGB, or change it !!
You do bring up many good points but with that constant negative slant. ALWAYS the negative slant. Is there something in the water in SoCal??
You write pretty well, so I have a suggestion: become a writer for a political organization. This way you can make good use of your ability to slant everything you put into print. You will have to learn to use a positive slant as well as your well-practiced negative, this may be too big of a change for you.
As for your 'inquiry' about the difference between pay at Frontier and JetBlue, why the comparison?? We are not Frontier, they are not JetBlue.
Why do you think the the pay rates and type of compensation should be the same or even similar?? If you think you should be compensated like those at Frontier, apply there, say goodbye to JetBlue, there will be few damp eyes here!
And the answer is that the creators of JetBlue are very smart and aware of the most common and strongest of human emotions: GREED [this is a good thing!!] JetBlue has an investment in us, and like you have stated, it is cheaper to pay premium pay than to hire and train an additional crewmember, so do you have a problem with smart management??
At JetBlue if you want to make some more $$ then you work more and at a premium rate, if you want to back off for a month or two, then you make less, and someone else who wants to make some premium time can work more. This seems very fair and equitable to me. You seem to think that you are owed some different compensation that was explained to you when you were offered a job here.
If I were able to pick up an additional 5:40 turn for straight time instead of for premium pay would I?? Doubtful. My time at home is worth more. But at premium pay, yes, I will stay another day at work. If I'm working hard, I want to be compensated at a higher rate for my extra work. This is all good business and good for us too.
You just can't see it. You are so negative that if you got everything that you whine and complain about here, then you would just find something else to complain about.
Get some professional help. Get another/different job. It amazes me that you post all over these pilot forums and everywhere it is always the same negative, poor-me stuff that you made the decision to join up for. If you made a mistake coming to JetBlue, then fix it, and go elsewhere.
This is a great place to work, and in this incredibly difficult economic environment the only place I would like to be.
Happy to be here, there are a few 'flies in the ointment' but only a few.
YOU made the decision to be LGB based, not JetBlue, quite whining about your decision to be at LGB, or change it !!
07-02-2005, 09:39 AM
#58
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by Blue 2
Are you REQUIRED to cover ONT/BUR?
In all fairness, he is a good guy and I have worked with him a lot. We were both laughing and he didn't mean it in a mean-spirited way.
But, it's true.
What do you think the outcome would be if I was to refuse a trip starting in ONT or BUR, for no other reason than "It's not my base."? Flowers, maybe?
07-02-2005, 03:14 PM
#60
Guest
Posts: n/a
Originally Posted by B6Guy
Jeez where do I start?? Realistic you must be a real pleasure to live or work with. Does ANYTHING please you??
You do bring up many good points but with that constant negative slant. ALWAYS the negative slant. Is there something in the water in SoCal??
You write pretty well, so I have a suggestion: become a writer for a political organization. This way you can make good use of your ability to slant everything you put into print. You will have to learn to use a positive slant as well as your well-practiced negative, this may be too big of a change for you.
As for your 'inquiry' about the difference between pay at Frontier and JetBlue, why the comparison?? We are not Frontier, they are not JetBlue.
Why do you think the the pay rates and type of compensation should be the same or even similar?? If you think you should be compensated like those at Frontier, apply there, say goodbye to JetBlue, there will be few damp eyes here!
And the answer is that the creators of JetBlue are very smart and aware of the most common and strongest of human emotions: GREED [this is a good thing!!] JetBlue has an investment in us, and like you have stated, it is cheaper to pay premium pay than to hire and train an additional crewmember, so do you have a problem with smart management??
At JetBlue if you want to make some more $$ then you work more and at a premium rate, if you want to back off for a month or two, then you make less, and someone else who wants to make some premium time can work more. This seems very fair and equitable to me. You seem to think that you are owed some different compensation that was explained to you when you were offered a job here.
If I were able to pick up an additional 5:40 turn for straight time instead of for premium pay would I?? Doubtful. My time at home is worth more. But at premium pay, yes, I will stay another day at work. If I'm working hard, I want to be compensated at a higher rate for my extra work. This is all good business and good for us too.
You just can't see it. You are so negative that if you got everything that you whine and complain about here, then you would just find something else to complain about.
Get some professional help. Get another/different job. It amazes me that you post all over these pilot forums and everywhere it is always the same negative, poor-me stuff that you made the decision to join up for. If you made a mistake coming to JetBlue, then fix it, and go elsewhere.
This is a great place to work, and in this incredibly difficult economic environment the only place I would like to be.
Happy to be here, there are a few 'flies in the ointment' but only a few.
YOU made the decision to be LGB based, not JetBlue, quite whining about your decision to be at LGB, or change it !!
You do bring up many good points but with that constant negative slant. ALWAYS the negative slant. Is there something in the water in SoCal??
You write pretty well, so I have a suggestion: become a writer for a political organization. This way you can make good use of your ability to slant everything you put into print. You will have to learn to use a positive slant as well as your well-practiced negative, this may be too big of a change for you.
As for your 'inquiry' about the difference between pay at Frontier and JetBlue, why the comparison?? We are not Frontier, they are not JetBlue.
Why do you think the the pay rates and type of compensation should be the same or even similar?? If you think you should be compensated like those at Frontier, apply there, say goodbye to JetBlue, there will be few damp eyes here!
And the answer is that the creators of JetBlue are very smart and aware of the most common and strongest of human emotions: GREED [this is a good thing!!] JetBlue has an investment in us, and like you have stated, it is cheaper to pay premium pay than to hire and train an additional crewmember, so do you have a problem with smart management??
At JetBlue if you want to make some more $$ then you work more and at a premium rate, if you want to back off for a month or two, then you make less, and someone else who wants to make some premium time can work more. This seems very fair and equitable to me. You seem to think that you are owed some different compensation that was explained to you when you were offered a job here.
If I were able to pick up an additional 5:40 turn for straight time instead of for premium pay would I?? Doubtful. My time at home is worth more. But at premium pay, yes, I will stay another day at work. If I'm working hard, I want to be compensated at a higher rate for my extra work. This is all good business and good for us too.
You just can't see it. You are so negative that if you got everything that you whine and complain about here, then you would just find something else to complain about.
Get some professional help. Get another/different job. It amazes me that you post all over these pilot forums and everywhere it is always the same negative, poor-me stuff that you made the decision to join up for. If you made a mistake coming to JetBlue, then fix it, and go elsewhere.
This is a great place to work, and in this incredibly difficult economic environment the only place I would like to be.
Happy to be here, there are a few 'flies in the ointment' but only a few.
YOU made the decision to be LGB based, not JetBlue, quite whining about your decision to be at LGB, or change it !!
What is this forum for? More self congratulations? Should we talk about how smart we all were to get hired at Jetblue? Should we talk about how the ALPA carriers deserved everything they got? Go to Flightinfo.com if you want that kind of mental self gratification.
Although I've read some pretty over the top negative comments about management and Jetblue in general, I always seem to draw the bulk of the ire from folks like you. I can only assume that laying out ugly truths is more upsetting to people than popping off some stupid comment about management.
These are the themes:
1. There has been incompetent handling of staffing/scheduling/rules.
2. Pay is tilted very steeply.
3. Not all pilots have access to this pay and the delay to access will grow.
4. Groups of senior pilots have formed influential networks and are protecting their turf.
5. AMP will probably not be good for reserves and will probably serve to separate the top and bottom of the pay scales even further.
6. White Papers number 1 layed out an unrealistic "house" of pay.
7. Staffing and base size is influenced by the desires of those who excersize their weight and influence.
8. The Scheduling Committee has revealed a clear bias in accidentally forwarded e-mails that makes it clear that many of us are without fair representation.
9. Our health plan went backwards when many of us were told it would go forward and it's costing many of us a lot of money.
10. Capital spending has been a little irresponsible at times.
Would you like me to put a positive slant on all of this?
Do you see any unrealistic expectations or wild accusations in here?
I'm not manufacturing propaganda for the dark and selfish purpose of bringing a union on the property.
It would be great if these things weren't occuring.
If Jetblue gets a union it will be due in no small part to a few of it's pilots being blind to the needs of the hundreds who follow. Exactly the reason my first airline organized.
This forum (for me) is a purposeful airing of dirty laundry because I've been misled, put off, ignored, and often lied to by the many folks and departments that I've interacted with - even - as I've witnessed certain folks just open any door and make any deal that suits their fancy.
You are absolutely right, I am motivated by the very same thing that a top 100 check airman is motivated by - money, QOL, well being.
I see it one way. You see it another.
The difference between our outlooks is financial.
This forum is a communications tool.
You want lashings and lashings of positive vibration then tune out and go to Principles of Leadership.
Of course your other option is to debate these issues and support your arguments.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
