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Transcon Turns

Old 06-29-2005, 05:58 AM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by Realistic
As an example:
Say 10 LGB pilots get 8 TCON turns a month for 88 hours with 22 days off, or for that matter, 8 TCON turns are introduced for the whole base. We drive the line holder average way up and force another couple guys out on reserve - because lord knows our block hours won't go up.
So now we run the base with fewer pilots for a given set of hours - anyone that gets fed up and bids out will never make it back.
Those of you reading this that are already 320 line holders could care less but remember that from August forward the number of people who DO care gets larger and larger.

Realistic,
I concur with DD. The number of hours flown by each pilot will still remain about the same as it currently is. If you take 1000/12 you get 83.333 per month. That is the max we can fly by the FAA. 90 per month would get you 1080! Can't happen. So the hours per pilot will remain at 80-90 hours average. Thus the number of line holders will remain the same. But since the number of lines flow per day will be reduced (cause the number of hours flown per pilot per day is increased), there may be a reduced "minimum reserve number". Say form 12/15 to 10/12. That means more reserves for PTO/UTO/Triptrade/IROPS etc.

Since the number ofline holders will remain the same, as flying increases the need for line holders will increase at the same rate. Thus the time on reserve will be the same.

I think the benefits to quality of life by increasing productivity will be the real payoff for everyone. Line holder QOL = increase Reserve QOL = remain the same.


Just my opinion....

FNG
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Old 06-30-2005, 04:12 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by FNG320
Realistic,
I concur with DD. The number of hours flown by each pilot will still remain about the same as it currently is. If you take 1000/12 you get 83.333 per month. That is the max we can fly by the FAA. 90 per month would get you 1080! Can't happen. So the hours per pilot will remain at 80-90 hours average. Thus the number of line holders will remain the same. But since the number of lines flow per day will be reduced (cause the number of hours flown per pilot per day is increased), there may be a reduced "minimum reserve number". Say form 12/15 to 10/12. That means more reserves for PTO/UTO/Triptrade/IROPS etc.

Since the number ofline holders will remain the same, as flying increases the need for line holders will increase at the same rate. Thus the time on reserve will be the same.

I think the benefits to quality of life by increasing productivity will be the real payoff for everyone. Line holder QOL = increase Reserve QOL = remain the same.
You are guessing that the hours will remain the same, and I'm not talking about 90 hours every month.
I'm talking about a small increase in productivity per pilot. If someone blocked an average of 88 hours every month you get 1056 block hours per year but you aren't actually going to block that time. You have two weeks of vacation, ground school, PTS, PC, PT, travel to training, PTO, and sick time. You're actual block will probably come out well below 1000 hours.
What I'm saying is that if you take a base of say 50 crews and you simply add 3 hours per month per crewmember of average productivity, you've just driven two pilots onto reserve.
With regard to running the airline with fewer reserves, I'm a career reserve (not by choice), and I have no interest what-so-ever in running the airline with fewer reserves. We run reserves like a backwater 135 operation.
 
Old 06-30-2005, 07:30 PM
  #43  
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"I'm a career reserve"

Come on now I know you are kidding with that statement, even I got a line after being on reserve.
You may be on longer than you expected but it will end.
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Old 07-01-2005, 12:24 AM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by Blue 2
"I'm a career reserve"

Come on now I know you are kidding with that statement, even I got a line after being on reserve.
You may be on longer than you expected but it will end.
Oh, my friend,
THAT depends on your base...

Sticker on a buddy's bag; " I'm feeling much better, now that I have given up all hope..."
Still looking to feel better...

Last edited by automatique; 07-01-2005 at 07:17 PM.
 
Old 07-01-2005, 06:56 AM
  #45  
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I think we spoke about this before, Quality of Life.
Be on reserve closer to home or hold a line further away ... Hummm
It would be nice to have both, many do.
Looks like the choice was made for QOL. If you are at FLL or LGB and deep on reserve I agree you are there for a looooong time with the current staffing. But the numbers were there when you took the base. We've already gone thru the expectations discussion.
There is nothing wrong with hoping/working for a change in reserve numbers but don't complain about the current situation when you accepted it to get the base.
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Old 07-01-2005, 08:03 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by Blue 2
"I'm a career reserve"

Come on now I know you are kidding with that statement, even I got a line after being on reserve.
You may be on longer than you expected but it will end.
That's what the scheduling committee told us at first.
Nobody believed them.
Then they said that the West Coast base was created for us and for the caring value.
That's when they lost all credibility.
Finally DB said what we knew all along. That a crew base on the West Coast is essential for transcon operations.
 
Old 07-01-2005, 08:13 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Blue 2
I think we spoke about this before, Quality of Life.
Be on reserve closer to home or hold a line further away ... Hummm
It would be nice to have both, many do.
Looks like the choice was made for QOL. If you are at FLL or LGB and deep on reserve I agree you are there for a looooong time with the current staffing. But the numbers were there when you took the base. We've already gone thru the expectations discussion.
There is nothing wrong with hoping/working for a change in reserve numbers but don't complain about the current situation when you accepted it to get the base.
Actually the choice was made back when they said that we would support 50 to 70 crews and it seemed clear that I wouldn't be a career reserve. Now we have senior line holders who whine at the mention of a co-base because "we don't want to be responsible for other airports" or "they might take JFK flying."
Funny how when the American slots opened up (about 12 crews worth) they all went to JFK.
And yet, we reserves are expected to treat the LA Basin as if it were a co-base.
But you seem to miss what we're arguing for here. Staffing (as screwed up as it is) will be decided by others and we may well be on reserve for many many years......which is why I am arguing for an industry standard compensation curve. That way, 75 hours is not paid less than a comparable industry 75 hours and 95 hours is not paid more than a comparable industry 95 hours.
What Jetblue is telling us with pay for performance is that despite what we go through on reserve here on the West Coast, our perfomance is worth $55,000 less per year than a line holder and $3,000 less per year than a Frontier pilot making 75 hours.
It just won't stand.
 
Old 07-01-2005, 08:36 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Realistic
I am arguing for an industry standard compensation curve. That way, 75 hours is not paid less than a comparable industry 75 hours and 95 hours is not paid more than a comparable industry 95 hours.
What Jetblue is telling us with pay for performance is that despite what we go through on reserve here on the West Coast, our perfomance is worth $55,000 less per year than a line holder and $3,000 less per year than a Frontier pilot making 75 hours.
It just won't stand.
Yes, It will stand. Because 99% of us are not Tools. We understand and like the system or we are working from the inside to fix the imperfections. So, we finally see your motivation. You say you took the job here because you were misinformed. That means you are saying you are gullible and dumb. I don't think you are. You are just muckraking to cause dissent. I have saved crummy schedules dozens of times with FLICA. If you want to make money go to New York. Your running on emtpy, Dude.
 
Old 07-01-2005, 08:59 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by kinetic
Yes, It will stand. Because 99% of us are not Tools. We understand and like the system or we are working from the inside to fix the imperfections. So, we finally see your motivation. You say you took the job here because you were misinformed. That means you are saying you are gullible and dumb. I don't think you are. You are just muckraking to cause dissent. I have saved crummy schedules dozens of times with FLICA. If you want to make money go to New York. Your running on emtpy, Dude.
Regardless of the motivation, "Realistic" has brought forth interesting and thought provoking discussion. Do you have anything besides "nanner nanner" and personal attacks , "Dude"?

 
Old 07-01-2005, 09:15 AM
  #50  
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Interesting. 50 to 70 crews 52 crews now at LGB.

"And yet, we reserves are expected to treat the LA Basin as if it were a co-base."
Are you saying the LGB reserves are required to respond to LGB/ONT/BUR? If that is true you are correct to complain, I don't believe it is in the LGB charter to do that.

Other than that it is/was your choice to go to and stay out in Long Beach. You seem to be a thinking person didn't you know the real $$ deal when you bid LGB?
You certainly know it now. If $$ is your priotity bid JFK if/when you can hold a line. You stay for QOL. I know you want both we would all like that.
I, like you hope the pay will get better when the industry shows sigs of recovery.

Last edited by Blue 2; 07-01-2005 at 01:01 PM.
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