leavemealone

These ab initio are a way to dilute the pay over time. Airline execs are grabbing every straw possible to pay people less.

So for you, and the rest of us, remind yourself everyday that you spent between 100k to 200k on a 4 year degree and then paid an additional 125k for flight training and that your first jobs in aviation are going to pay in sandwiches. Make sure when you end up at your "dream job" your pay never falls short of rewarding that type of financial commitment.

leavemealone

How many pilots have done that over the years. Its a serious threat! Also to mention that a Germanwings pilot has been through some of the most intense psyciatric testing in the aviation world. Misery does breed this type of behavior. Whether or not he was nuts isn't the question. If he was making 150k do you think he would have still done this? Someone that commits suicide has decided that nothing is left. Its not like he started flying to ultimatly carry out this plan, he did it on a whim.

leavemealone

Most pilots believe in paying their dues. And using hours as a rough way to estimate the amount of dues one has paid is the industry standard. For example, a pilot has been flying for 13 years, was a CFI, fo and a captain. Has a masters degree. Most of their experience is international time. 6000 hours of airbus time. of which 2000 is PIC. They have worked with about 28 different nationalities and have never failed a checkride in 13 years. Was a CRM manager and heped out at the safety department. They just got hired by Jetblue after applying for 2.5 years. Compared to that person, what do you bring to the table? Do you deserve the job over that guy?

WeirdBeard

First solo to jetblue took me 20 years.

hilltopflyer

Yep 13 years for me.

PotatoChip

The ab initio program dilutes pilot pay. We are paid commensurate to experience. We are paid based on what we expect we are worth. A 40 year old believes they are worth a lot more than a 23 year old just happy to sit in a shiny jet. There are plenty of 20 year olds who would PAY to sit in that seat. BIG difference.
Folks with decades of experience also understand the importance of unity in a union (well most anyway). Ab initio is just a way to control pilots from when they are the most naive and ignorant.

And also, while some pilots got hired into E145's with around 300 hours, it was never "most".

FWIW, I interviewed with JetBlue after 17 years from my first solo and was around mid-level age in my interview group.

coopervane

Zero to JB Hero took me 16 years. I struggled for years flying w/students, eventually cargo, eventually a regional. Made 20-30k for a frikking DECADE.

And I kinda had it easy. Lots worked harder and longer than me and I respect them. They respect me too for the hard road I followed to get here.

So you’ll have to pardon those who have no respect for those trying to shortcut the entire system. Too bad if you don’t like it.

JayMahon

A lot of these XX years to JB have to do with the aviation environment at the time. We are not in the same Environment today that existed 20+ years ago. Yada yada yada, pilot shortage.

The reason these programs exist is because of the airlines need for pilots and the pilots need for training. If just one of these two factors was gone, this program wouldn't exist.

According to the JB Profile on APC, the most junior captain was a Feb 2015 hire. Since zero to Regional FO takes about 2-3 years for a motivated pilot, it's conceivable that even pilots NOT using the ab initio program could potentially be hired within 4 years of their solo flight.

That said, I'm not a fan of these programs. Pilots can get flight training MUCH cheaper than 110k/125k using FBOs and Flying Clubs. Goodness knows there are plenty of CFIs looking for hours willing to do work cheap on the side.

So you're basically paying for the benefit of skipping the regionals and going direct into JB. I won't lie... that's a pretty big benefit. I just can't justify the 70k-80k additional expense for it. Mostly because I loathe debt.

hilltopflyer

Exactly. With the regionals now a days paying huge bonuses it makes no sense to do this at all. I don’t care about the pilot environment today when you still have a bunch of regional guys who would want to be here. This is all about getting pilots on property who feel like an indentured serpent to Jetblue. Until the other majors do these types these guys will only be gear monkeys for me. And how will it work when they were told they would be put into the 190 only? Where does seniority fit into that promise? Probably older then most new hire pilots...

Blue Dude

12 1/2 years for me.