You're lying to yourself. You tell me if a legacy would have offered you a job straight out of college or at the time you were getting your first regional job that you would have said thanks but no thanks, I need to get my regional experience first? Right. There is no doubt that you got great experience at the regionals.

 

Closing Arguments:

1. Regionals are designed to wip up a fresh 1500 hr 172 CFI into an Airline Pilot. The regional Check Airman have dealt with scenario for years with these type of experience; you know, how to land a jet for the first time. What is de-icing? Radio calls in JFK, flow in ORD. So, go to a regional that will gladly teach you this, not buy yourself into a Major airline that will expect you to know all these things on day one of IOE.
2. Your typical civilian new hire at a Major airline is regional guy used and abused for years. The mere fact that they are out of the regionals makes their attitude much more pleasant. You bought your job, it makes you a consumer, which gives you entitlement. If your entitlement expectations are not met, you develop a self destructive attitude, which will be a pain to deal with from the training department all the way to the line pilot.
3. You are buying yourself a job, no questions about it. Your average regional pilot did not. They bought the flight training, worked their way up to the regionals without any guarantee that their seniority number is reserved at a major. Only thing that will get them there is merit. You are bypassing everything by just writing a 125k check. Imagine starting a 4 day trip where the captain had to slum it out at the regional level, network and work their way into B6, while you, bought your job. Imagine the level of respect from your peers.
4. If B6 is worried about a pilot shortage, then maybe they should stop ignoring high time regional CAs and LCAs who are deemed untrainable. Lots of us will be happy in any seat if our QOL and paycheck is better. B6 will have a net pool of 3000 candidates, which is not a shortage.

There's no way around it, you bought yourself a job, and it's not even guaranteed. Idotic is not even correct world to describe this type of action. Get a job using your own merit, if you have none then....

 

This is still a many-year investment. The pilot shortage crisis will peak in five years if nothing is done to change things, and this ab-initio program will take at least that long. You will emerge into a very changed world. JB will likely have been swallowed up, or will have grown big enough to start their own low-paying subsidiary for new pilots.

 

That's a huge ($125,000.00) gamble. What if JB isn't JB in 4 years? What if you don't make it? Do you get any type of refund at any point along the way if you opt out? Will you get any health benefits during your 4 years of training?

Don't expect any respect from your peers for choosing this path.

GP

 

A lot of comments on the $125,000. That's a huge amount, no doubt, but after breaking it down it's not entirely unreasonable. Most of this is pulled from program's FAQ:

• It includes all transportation and lodging for four years. Where I live, that means I'm not spending $57,600 on rent over the course of four years (I currently spend $1,200 a month on a tiny studio apartment). For someone like me, that has now effectively brought the cost of training down to roughly $70,000, about the same as ATP's program which trains hundreds of Regional pilots each year.
• All other miscellaneous fees are included (even an iPad, for what it's worth). I know I spent a small fortune on examiner fees, materials, etc. during my initial training.
• You become a salaried, benefitted employee at CAE for two years, or longer. Instructor salary is over $40K per year. I couldn't dream of getting close to that at my local flight school.
• This is obviously subjective, but as CAE has a strong international reputation, you're arguably going through a more regimented and airline focused curriculum compared to one's local, GA flight school.
• There is no obligation to sign-on with JetBlue at the conclusion of the program. You're free to recruit with any airline if you desire. So, if it seems every pilot and their dog will actually hate you, fine. Go sign on with a Regional. When it's all said and done you really haven't spent that much more on your training, unless you currently live rent free.
• If you do drop-out, you obviously keep any ratings you've earned. They're yours, not JetBlue's or CAE's. You do not have to pay any remaining fees, but you will not receive a refund for payments made.
• There is no financing partnership available through CAE or JetBlue, so good luck finding a bank to give you a $125,000 loan.

 

I've read this whole thread and basically came to the same conclusion as you.

 

Navy guys are the ones that need a visit to the shrink the most.

 

These are all questions I'd have before coughing up $125k.

I'll give ya a hint, they don't have an answer for any of these questions.

 

Or maybe this is the fact that the airlines are working to further erode the respectability and pay of the profession. Look at how the VA just today announced they are going to be using more Nurses with the ability to write prescriptions. (as if somehow prescriptions were the solution to every ailment) Doctors disagree with this practice but of course, they are not being listened to by management. A terrible VA is just about to get even worse!

Make no mistake... this program is to reduce pilot pay by saying that someone far less experienced, far less educated can do the same job. A company doesn't really care if you get violated because it is YOUR license, not theirs. The company will defend themselves saying they had operational control, the pilots had training, and of course all the legal language in the operations manual always makes the pilot culpable. Lastly, what makes a pilot experienced is not hours necessarily -- it's the type of experiences he has had (e.g. emergencies). Airlines are using statistical observations to say that operations are far safer now, airplanes are safer, and thus the chance of an emergency occurring (with an inexperienced pilot) are very low. And in the event an emergency does occur, the company will always say that it was an emergency and that the pilot is to blame. From a legal standpoint, the company sits pretty if anything were to happen meanwhile people will have died.

They can make all the arguments they want about the military taking inexperienced pilots but it's an apples to oranges comparison. The military persistently demands discipline and affords significant training opportunities (every flight includes training). I somehow doubt that these guys are going to go do 6 instrument approaches with touch and goes in the real airplane every month. I also doubt they will pay a small fortune to have them at the sims every month practicing emergency procedures. What they want is not impossible but it requires a great deal of money to do correctly and no airline will ever pour that much money into training.

And one last point about discipline... in the military you are in a rank structure that is very real because it is re-enforced by military law. This promotes discipline whether the young pilot wants it or not. Usually the Aircraft Commander is not just the guy who signs for the airplane, but also the guy who outranks his copilot and rest of the crew. Not to mention, performance in the cockpit is also tied to various records kept on the pilot all of which are actionable by the unit commander. The civilian world simply has no equivalent -- not even close. A chief pilot is about the closest you can get but he has no real authority over the young pilot. This is because no civilian is above another and all employment is totally optional. Remember, a civilian can have a bad attitude and simply quit his job. They can also be extremely undisciplined and unruly in their job until they decide to quit or go elsewhere. So, I wish the JB would quit making the military comparison. The truth is they are navigating uncharted waters with this programme.

 

Well I think this is the first valid argument against the program: It is designed to defeat the supply/demand trend that currently favors labor.

For that reason, and that reason alone, ALPA should try to stop it.

However, demonizing the participants is not the way to go, especially if you are going to use fallacious arguments to support your position. It makes you all look dumb and petty.