UpAndAway

Because they have to? Says who? If Regional pilots are woefully inexperienced (what is basically being said on this thread), then where's the outcry for public safety, as thousands of passengers fly on these flights daily?

rvr1800

Says the free market. They can't recruit experienced pilots because they pay peanuts. We don't. We can recruit very experienced pilots. I mentioned nothing about safety. I am saying the program is unnecessary to recruit pilots to work at Jetblue.

dogismycopilot

While this may be true today, this will not always be the case. A NYT article released today says "the number of pilots the majors are going to need in the coming years will burn through our entire work force unless there’s some sort of intervention." What will JetBlue, Spirit, and the majors do if this is the case? It's going to get really interesting. While I don't agree with the way JetBlue has handled the whole situation (keeping ALPA out of the loop), Ab Initio programs are going to happen. I am sure the majors are looking for more sustainable supplies of pilots. I wouldn't be suprised to see the majors start similar programs, the exception being an extended stop at one of the c-scale regionals along the way. Funny, most of those major airline unions would like to bring their RJ flying in house. What would their Ab Initio pipeline look like if they did? Is it a better strategy to alienate the new Ab Initio pilots or bring them into the fold as full fledged Air Line pilots? Leave it to JetBlue to choose the "contrarian" way forward. I am interested to see how this is going to play out.

rvr1800

I don't support alienating these guys. That's an immature strategy to try to squash this program. The pilot shortage can be solved simply by the majors negotiating reasonable contracts with their regionals and in turn those regionals paying pilots a livable wage. As far as jetblue's recruiting goes all we need to do is offer a contract that's better than the legacies and we'll have no issues.

UpAndAway

I'd be more inclined to agree with the free market idea if airlines weren't making record profits while paying their executives 7 figure salaries. They pay low salaries because they can (our economic system encourages this), and bright-eyed pilot bought into this for a long time. Turns out it's not what they thought and now we have thousands of regional pilots trying to move to the Majors, but competition for available spots is tough - and why would Management change as they're getting cheap labor on regional routes?

As mentioned earlier, the first graduates of the program wouldn't hit the line until 2020, representing roughly 6% of the new pilots for that year. While I agree that what you're saying is true for today, what about in 5, 10 years? Honest question, but is this whole pilot shortage just some big fallacy?

For those of you that currently work at JetBlue, have any of you asked why they're doing this program? I'd be interested to hear what they say.

UpAndAway

I agree, and thank you.

pipe

It's not about flying the airplane. It's about decision making and management of the airplane and environment. Doing those things well relies largely on experience.

Pipe

comrcap

Ab initio is pay for training. Period. Don't do it.

hindsight2020

Sure. Buuuuut....will mainline pilots be cool with reduced compensation in order for management to fix the glitch wrt their subcontractors? The answer is of course they won't. Management won't redistribute the company's profit willingly in order to do it, that's for sure.

Sounds like the new guy has all y'all check-mated on the regional FO apprenticeship angle though. The lives of your mainline customers gets gambled on most connecting flights by these regional players, and they do the exact same job as a mainline FO. Just because it's economic fact doesn't make it right. The indignation from the pay your dues seasoned regional applicants to mainline jobs is noted, but it's misplaced anger in respect to this thread. The regionals gamble a LOT when it comes to the safe outcome of their operation. They're one essential DC bus failure away from morting themselves in IMC with people on board, and we already saw what has happened when perfectly operational airplanes get crashed by incompetents who "play" airline pilot well. It is in the best interest of the mainline labor to deflect away from the notion that airplanes can be flown by inexperienced crews reliant on the MTBF of modern avionics and engine and flight control monitoring systems. The best way to do this imo? Absorb the B-scale into mainline lists and take over the flying. Otherwise management will see an opening and "regional FO" up the right seat mainline jobs. At that point the CA pay gets eroded too it's game over, because without the carrot of mainline CA pay, the entire scheme collapses at all levels. People endure the regional pay for the promise of mainline CA pay. Absent that, the entire thing is a non-starter and everybody knows it.

The military is ab initio. You don't pay for that training, other than a training commitment of time and the potential of getting killed because you are being shot at, or in most people's cases, because the airplanes are old and mx sucks on them. Still, mil folks go to the front of the line on many instances of part 121 hiring too. So, ab initio is not a synonym for PFT by default.

Trent900

BA Ab-initio is a MUCH more stringent program than Gateway!


T