Kalitta Air (K4) Information
02-17-2022, 05:38 PM
#4001
Line Holder
Joined APC: Feb 2022
Position: Cherokee FO
Posts: 31
Originally Posted by maxjet
You have opened Pandora’s box with what you may see as a simple question. YOU have to decide what in aviation appeals to you. Do you like a private jet kind of thing where you have one customer at a time who can sometimes be an ass? Do you want to fly freight ranging from sitting is a hub wet and tired, to working at K4 during the good times (not right now) where you went out for 17 days and only flew 7. The rest of the time you were overnighting in cities like Paris, Dubai, Hong Kong, Sydney for 2 or 3 days in a row? Do you want to fly passengers for a legacy? Do you want to fly air medical? Do you want to fly for the federal government? Do you want to fly for the military?
For the first time in my adult life, these paths are all available to you. It appears that they will continue to be available to you for the foreseeable future. There will be dips in the road with pandemics, wars etc. but the shortage of pilots will continue.
My advice is, if you are a young man or woman, go and enjoy all of it. Go to K9 and make a 2 year commitment to yourself. See if you like it. If you don’t, move somewhere else. Never be afraid to start over. One of the worse things you can do is to set your sites on one section of the industry like for example Southwest. You get the necessary time and get a job there at 25. For the next 40 years you fly a 737 to the same 20 destinations? Great money and a great schedule. Doesn’t sound like much fun after a while though.
Due to the lost decade, in 4 years I ended up with 6 type ratings and multiple companies. Went from Mesa, Maxjet, Skybus, Northwest (sent over to Compass to await hiring out of the pool which never happened), USA3000, Carnegie Mellon University, PHI Air Medical, KalittaAir. At the time I wasn’t happy about it. In retrospect, it was a great thing to experience all of those different operations. When I arrived at K4 in 2011 I found that for me, it was the perfect fit and that I had finally found home.
You must find your own path. To do otherwise will result in you probably becoming just another unhappy pilot, who has lost site of the joy of aviation.
For the first time in my adult life, these paths are all available to you. It appears that they will continue to be available to you for the foreseeable future. There will be dips in the road with pandemics, wars etc. but the shortage of pilots will continue.
My advice is, if you are a young man or woman, go and enjoy all of it. Go to K9 and make a 2 year commitment to yourself. See if you like it. If you don’t, move somewhere else. Never be afraid to start over. One of the worse things you can do is to set your sites on one section of the industry like for example Southwest. You get the necessary time and get a job there at 25. For the next 40 years you fly a 737 to the same 20 destinations? Great money and a great schedule. Doesn’t sound like much fun after a while though.
Due to the lost decade, in 4 years I ended up with 6 type ratings and multiple companies. Went from Mesa, Maxjet, Skybus, Northwest (sent over to Compass to await hiring out of the pool which never happened), USA3000, Carnegie Mellon University, PHI Air Medical, KalittaAir. At the time I wasn’t happy about it. In retrospect, it was a great thing to experience all of those different operations. When I arrived at K4 in 2011 I found that for me, it was the perfect fit and that I had finally found home.
You must find your own path. To do otherwise will result in you probably becoming just another unhappy pilot, who has lost site of the joy of aviation.
My peers at [Midwestern 141 School] seem pretty fixated on getting into the RJ and flowing as fast as possible to the Big 3.
I love flying, and I want to use the career as a vehicle to be able to go places and do things most people will not (for reasonable compensation). No disrespect intended to the other side of the house but I don't really have any interest in the hat and double-breasted suit and long-winded PA announcements, to say nothing about shuttling around the kind of people who have private jets.
The more I look into ACMI the more I like it-you're "at work" when you're at work, the variety of locations and contracts, cowboy flying into places that aren't LGA/ORD. I was initially looking at 135 FDX Feeder Ops, but it didn't make sense to wait for the 135 mins when I could get the RATP months earlier and I wasn't thrilled with the "6-says on, every 6th week off" schedule.
We'll see what shapes up, K4 is definitely high on the list of somewhere I'd like to give a go.
02-17-2022, 06:57 PM
#4002
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2011
Position: Licking the window
Posts: 461
Originally Posted by onepoint5thumbs
cowboy flying into places that aren't LGA/ORD.
We do go to interesting places, but they’re still airports large enough to support a heavy aircraft. We also do our fair share of ORD/JFK/LAX/CVG.
Look into operators like Lynden if you’re wanting dirt strips and adventure.
02-18-2022, 01:08 PM
#4003
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2015
Posts: 2,427
Originally Posted by Locke
The days of cowboy flying at Kalitta are long gone.
We do go to interesting places, but they’re still airports large enough to support a heavy aircraft. We also do our fair share of ORD/JFK/LAX/CVG.
Look into operators like Lynden if you’re wanting dirt strips and adventure.
We do go to interesting places, but they’re still airports large enough to support a heavy aircraft. We also do our fair share of ORD/JFK/LAX/CVG.
Look into operators like Lynden if you’re wanting dirt strips and adventure.
02-18-2022, 01:09 PM
#4004
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 2
Kalitta Interview
Hey everyone, I've been stalking this forum for years, and for a long time Kalitta was a place I dreamed of working at. I'm at a regional now but I've flown cargo and medevac before with crazy schedules and I think I know what I'm getting into. Now that the majors are in sight for me, I got a call from Kalitta for an interview on March 1st. It's bittersweet because two years ago I would've been over the moon and gone without hesitation. Morale was high, it seemed like everyone who posted here was like "well, it's not perfect but it's pretty damn good." I don't get that feeling anymore. It seems like things have changed a lot since COVID began and the new contract happened. I'd really like to talk to a couple of people to ask questions and really get an idea of what I can expect in terms of schedules, pay, routes, etc. I'm interested in getting feedback from both those who are fine with the way things are now and those who are not happy with the way things are going so I can make an educated decision about whether to go through with Kalitta or wait for one of the legacies to call. Any feedback or insight is super appreciated.
02-18-2022, 06:22 PM
#4005
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2020
Posts: 72
Originally Posted by thaisycat
Hey everyone, I've been stalking this forum for years, and for a long time Kalitta was a place I dreamed of working at. I'm at a regional now but I've flown cargo and medevac before with crazy schedules and I think I know what I'm getting into. Now that the majors are in sight for me, I got a call from Kalitta for an interview on March 1st. It's bittersweet because two years ago I would've been over the moon and gone without hesitation. Morale was high.
I’ve been here for sometime. It’s a second home for me, and bittersweet. I’m down to a few years and will ride this out, but lots of others are moving elsewhere.
The good, K4 is classic and so are our birds. Getting to fly a 747 is incredible, and a rare thing these days. The pay is alright, though it could always be better. QOL… See below.
The bad, this place goes up and down. Management seems sometimes to be on our (pilots) side, sometimes against every last thing we do. These days, it’s rough. The rumor is we are following the Altas model, keep things bad so guys won’t ride to the end. QOL is poor, I get stuck out often, I have to fight for the extra pay I earn, and I feel that reoccurring issues are never addressed (catering, hotels, etc). I think the lack of 401k matching when compared to industry standard speaks to how much regard they give to the longevity of the pilots.
Side notes; is this better than a regional? Yes! Of course. Great experience to learn to. Good flying, good training and good crews.
Do you have a flow now? I would ride that out.
Do you have a chance for a major? Go. You would be stupid not to.
How do we compare to LLCs or other ACMIs? That’s personal. Do you want to be home- don’t come here. Are you young and single? Come here and see the world.
02-18-2022, 08:44 PM
#4006
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,471
Originally Posted by Frank717
First of all, congratulations on the interview. Always follow your dreams.
I’ve been here for sometime. It’s a second home for me, and bittersweet. I’m down to a few years and will ride this out, but lots of others are moving elsewhere.
The good, K4 is classic and so are our birds. Getting to fly a 747 is incredible, and a rare thing these days. The pay is alright, though it could always be better. QOL… See below.
The bad, this place goes up and down. Management seems sometimes to be on our (pilots) side, sometimes against every last thing we do. These days, it’s rough. The rumor is we are following the Altas model, keep things bad so guys won’t ride to the end. QOL is poor, I get stuck out often, I have to fight for the extra pay I earn, and I feel that reoccurring issues are never addressed (catering, hotels, etc). I think the lack of 401k matching when compared to industry standard speaks to how much regard they give to the longevity of the pilots.
Side notes; is this better than a regional? Yes! Of course. Great experience to learn to. Good flying, good training and good crews.
Do you have a flow now? I would ride that out.
Do you have a chance for a major? Go. You would be stupid not to.
How do we compare to LLCs or other ACMIs? That’s personal. Do you want to be home- don’t come here. Are you young and single? Come here and see the world.
I’ve been here for sometime. It’s a second home for me, and bittersweet. I’m down to a few years and will ride this out, but lots of others are moving elsewhere.
The good, K4 is classic and so are our birds. Getting to fly a 747 is incredible, and a rare thing these days. The pay is alright, though it could always be better. QOL… See below.
The bad, this place goes up and down. Management seems sometimes to be on our (pilots) side, sometimes against every last thing we do. These days, it’s rough. The rumor is we are following the Altas model, keep things bad so guys won’t ride to the end. QOL is poor, I get stuck out often, I have to fight for the extra pay I earn, and I feel that reoccurring issues are never addressed (catering, hotels, etc). I think the lack of 401k matching when compared to industry standard speaks to how much regard they give to the longevity of the pilots.
Side notes; is this better than a regional? Yes! Of course. Great experience to learn to. Good flying, good training and good crews.
Do you have a flow now? I would ride that out.
Do you have a chance for a major? Go. You would be stupid not to.
How do we compare to LLCs or other ACMIs? That’s personal. Do you want to be home- don’t come here. Are you young and single? Come here and see the world.
You know almost no CAs are resigning right now from Atlas? So they most definitely are all riding it out.
02-18-2022, 09:24 PM
#4007
New Hire
Joined APC: Apr 2019
Posts: 2
Thanks, guys. A few years ago I used to laugh when I told people that I wanted to fly cargo again and they would ask me "well, why don't you apply to Atlas?" Things have really changed and nowadays Atlas doesn't seem like such a bad place to work for. Kalitta initially called me for a 767 FO position, but I realized I would pretty much be doing the same thing I do now at Envoy (just on a bigger airplane) I told them it wasn't for me. I'm now going to interview for the 777 since the 767 is getting phased out and even though I had kind of wanted the 747 (following in my Dad's footsteps flying the 727) I still think it's a pretty good deal. But I also have an interview lined up with United and I plan to leverage one with American. I don't know if the pay and the chance to do the flying I really want to do beats the 401k match and the travel benefits that my family has come to rely on that the legacies offer. I'm afraid I'm still stuck in the past when I was looking at Kalitta with heart-shaped glasses. Do you guys see the QOL improving at all within the next few years?
And I hate to open up a can of worms but can anyone fill me in on this new contract? It was awesome before and I don't know the details of the new CBA but it seems like it's generally agreed upon that it was a terrible deal. What's going on with that? I'm on Envoy's tiny negotiations committee and we're very excited to start talks for our new contract next year so it's disheartening to see so much opposition to the successor of what was all-around a good contract at Kalitta...
And I hate to open up a can of worms but can anyone fill me in on this new contract? It was awesome before and I don't know the details of the new CBA but it seems like it's generally agreed upon that it was a terrible deal. What's going on with that? I'm on Envoy's tiny negotiations committee and we're very excited to start talks for our new contract next year so it's disheartening to see so much opposition to the successor of what was all-around a good contract at Kalitta...
02-18-2022, 09:28 PM
#4008
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2016
Posts: 831
I guess I kinda have to disagree a little bit with Frank’s post. I’ve never been stuck out the in the years I’ve been here. Happened just today….a flight on my last day delayed getting into the lower 48 until 1930z. A friendly email to scheduling explaining that it gets me home late and I’d prefer contractually compliant travel home please and it’s fixed. If you experience anything different the CPO will make it right. The thing that has detracted from QOL on the road is the lack of ability to overnight in China (not in itself a bad thing)…and the associated long two leg days bouncing through China. API was making things suck for a while….but that seems to be mostly smoothed out. I dunno…I’m a little more glass half full I guess. Retirement is a huge issue.
02-19-2022, 01:40 AM
#4009
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
Here is my quick take. Soon to enter my 12th year here. Pay... its as good as you want it to be. I worked 10 months ... 2 out on medical and one of those unpaid and made just short of 300k as a 74 CA. Retirement needs to be about double the current rate. I dont have any horrible travel stories like some.. .but they have been there. That seems to be better as of late. They are getting hold of the hotel situation all though thats going to take some time. the schedules generally suck.... I will say Jan and Feb have not been at the pace of the past year. The union and the Company need to figure out a way to stem the bleeding. K4 has come a very long way in the past 10+ years, and a ways to go. Good training, good pilots ( every airline has there 5%) and generally has been a great place to work the past 4-6 years. There need to be some changes. The contract has some poor wording and needs tweaking but generally if you understand the contract you can solve many issues before they become a problem. Insurance... not as cheap as it use to be... not as expensive as some, but its a Cadillac plan..... the deliver on this front across the board.
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