maxjet

Sounds Great

Mark2792

THAT I have a problem with. I'm a K4 alumni, and everything that I've read on this thread is pretty much true, up to your post. People paying off the schedulers? Sheeet, everyone knew that was going on! Some people were just "special" in the eyes of the scheduling department. I just told the schedulers:

"You've got my rear end [and the rest of me] for 17 days. I don't care where I go, but if you throw me on a bad trip, then....some time in the future throw me a bone once in a while OK?"

That attitude WORKED. I got as many good trips as bad, and never paid anyone a single CENT.

-Kalitta Air is a small airline owned by one very hands-on individual. Due to the small nature of the business, it has collected people that I would creatively call "different". Some of these are people who have minor personality issues. But to remark about the whole of the place:

"I do not associate Kalitta Air with a professionally operated airline" is to do a great disservice to all the people there who DO a good job day in, day out in the worst possible conditions with little or NO support yet manage to get the job done, while earning HALF what they should be earning.

I wish you a good day, but I'd recommend less alcohol before you post.

aaaa2378

I agree, but further back in this stream there were some pretty inflated things about engineers upgrading to pilots. 300 hours in ioe? Come on now! I'd take a lot of things on here with a grain of salt.

maxjet

aaaa2378. Regarding the engineer upgrades. Do you think that 100 hours is appropriate? Because it was much more than that. When I came to work here I had never even been in a 747. If I had gotten to the point where I was on IOE for even half of the time that I mentioned I would have been sent home to look for another job. Why is it that people are defending this as though it might even be a little bit OK. Can you imagine being the Captain and having 2 of these folks on your crew. You are doing an ad hoc charter. Something goes wrong and you need to find a diversion airport immediately. How do you think this will turn out? I don't think very well. THIS IS NOT A TRAINING AIRPLANE! My attitude is not personal and I have no ill feelings towards any engineer or for that matter any other pilot the company hires. My attitude is business and keeping my job. We bend another airplane and I thing we might just all be out of work.

aaaa2378

I know the guy that this is about and I know for a fact that it wasn't anywhere near 300 hours. I asked him about it cuz i don't believe in rumors. I'm sure if anyone were interested in knowing the real info, they could just ask him. What if the training was half (150 hours)? Would that change how others would look at him or would they come up with something else? And I'm not talking about just engineers. How about a regional guy or a classic guy? There are guys on these planes that have 10,000± hours that i don't feel safe with. So do you look past it cuz he's got a lot more experience? Does the company have favorites? I say it's possible but not to the extent to allow someone to fly their plane into the dirt. It just doesn't make sense. Training is the weakest link here, not the pilot. What do you think?

HercDriver130

I think you are wrong. I don't think guys with essentially 1000 hours of 172 time with a bit of multi belong in the right seat of a 747 no matter how much FE time they have. Even 150 hours is too much. And its not just one... it has been several.. and yes that goes for off the street hires as well. And I disagree.... its not all about the training.. sometimes it is the pilot.... some guys just don't have it no matter how long you let them flail at it.

aaaa2378

So just because they're fe's they all came from 172's? How about the guy with 5000 hours and can't pass the training but the fe did? You don't think training let him down? Do you think the fe made it because the company let things slide? Doubtful. Our check airman would have taken him out. You know this. I don't think anyone that comes over should get special treatment. AT ALL! EVER! I don't care where they came from. But I also don't think they should be treated bad or have rumors made up to get them fired because of their history. If he can do the job, then he should be doing it. Who's the better pilot, 1500 hour DC8 driver or 5000 EMB175? Just a question.

HercDriver130

I absolutely do think they let guys thru sometimes....dude there is a guy out on OE now who BUSTED his MTV in initial AND his LOE in Initial and they still sent him out ... ***? I do think everybody is different.... and if a guy with 5000 hours can't pass...he can't pass..... and for me personally.... give them a chance ...but they should be held to the same standards and I don't believe they have in some cases... AND the CBA is BS....allowing them to come over with their seniority ...when had we done the same in reverse we would have gone to the bottom....and bringing their PFE over ride with them?? more BS... gee i wonder who wrote those provisions into the last CBA....yep...FEs.....

aaaa2378

I agree, there should be a standard that everyone should be held to. But, is it the students fault that he was passed by a non-standard instructor? That's a training issue, not the pilot. It's up to the instructor to find the students weakness and work through them or send him home.
As far as the current CBA, yes, it's poor. But, are you personally affected by the provision that you would go to the bottom of the FE list? Doubtful. So that's a moot point. No one is going back to the classic. the FE's that are coming over a being forced to come over. I'm sure that most would prefer to stay on the classic. So why take it out on them. This is the company doing.
The PFE pay, if you look at the current FO list and the prior PFE's that are on it, only three have brought their pay over. Does that affect you? Again, doubtful. There may be two or three more coming over with their pay, again very little affect. The rest, maybe one or two more, are SO's. Should they go to the bottom? If I understand it correctly, they're hired expecting to come up if they're eligible. Same pay as an FO.
When a new hire gets here, he's given a copy of the CBA. If he doesn't agree with it, he doesn't have to take the job. If a current employee doesn't like the CBA, he can quit (as some have already done). If so many pilots are complaining about them having more experience than the FE's, why are they here and not at a Legacy? I feel that the seniority list would be more affected by the guys that are holding spots at other airlines and not leaving. They chose to stay on our seniority list and not allow the rest of us to move up. (My opinion only).

HercDriver130

Lets get this straight... NO FE has been forced over here.... if they displaced over .... they came because they wanted to..... I don't know of ANY FE that has been forced to take a right seat job... Now if by forced you mean their seats are going away on the classic.... yea... well cry me a river..... the three cockpit with an FE has been on the decline for 20+ years.....how long did they think it would last? As for them coming over WITH their seniority... it damn well effects everyone below them on the seniority list.... as for the PFE pay issue... again..its an insult is what it is.. now they are FOs they should be paid the appropriate FO rate... Also...why should the standard for them being eligible be any less than an off the street hire? It is because of a CBA written again.. by the FEs for the FEs..... time will tell how it all plays out.