Thank you, Ski. I think the reality is setting in for some, and along with that, some denial, and anger.

It's understandable, and sad. Time to get off the duff and do something about it, instead of trying to knock someone who actually HAS bitten the bullit, so to speak.

I was very proud of the 13 years and 11,000 plus hours of safe, incident free flying that I did, in the end, however, my families needs over-rode my own.

I'm still crunching my pills. Hell, TM's got me all fired up now. How do you get off these things?

See, I never accepted Aviation to be the only leg to stand on. I don't know how it is to live of 30K a year, I never did. I don't know how it is to never sleep at home, or eat noodles for lunch & dinner. I just know that to some (not me) that is a dream, they follow it and get burned. Then they cry. I hate crying. Must have been lucky, seeing so many people go into debt, not making it. I just wish you guys would direct your efforts towards a better industry, and instill some pride into the 20 year old kids that are storming Mesa right now. ("Ohhh, they let me fly a RJ, with a pulse and because I walk upright, hell how do you spell my last name?") In here, I mean in this little corner of the forum, these halfassed efforts, looking down upon those who fear for their jobs and livelyhoods now, are really wasted. Have I ever advised a single person to become a "Airline Pilot"? Nope. Why? Because I never subscribed to the prestige that supposedly comes from driving a bus that actually flies. Barry Schiff is history. And so are all the 300K+ jobs flying tin.
So, please, either get involved in helping others to avoid your mistakes in a constructive way, or get lost. Thats why I'm crazy? So be it. :) I have the opportunity to do this for as long as I desire. I have a family that is well taken care off, my stuff is paid for.
If I don't find a job tomorrow, I'll keep running my business. ;) I am still frugal with what I pay for flight training. It is a lousy training atmosphere out there and likely to get worse with people who hated instruction when they had to do it, coming back to it.
I will not look down on people who try to make ends meet. I look down upon those who can't just walk away from it and leave it be.

Look Down then
 

Like I said before. If you want that kind of life then go and get it. Why pick on me and TM? If you are a wealthy trust fund guy then who cares about what we have to say? Others however are trying to make a living at this and don't have much to fall back on.

You don't even have a job yet. Breath into a bag for a while and calm down. Get a CFI job and in one month come back and tell us how it went.

SkyHigh

My time
 

I don't think my 121 experience was any different that yours except that I was older and had more responsibilities.

My job as a provider wore heavily on my mind. I had small babies who had to go to daycare because my wife had to work in order to help support us.

Coming home to unpaid bills and seeing your family suffer due to your time away and low wages will suck the fun out of anything.

As 22 year old with nothing but myself to think of things were different. I lived in my truck for 9 months in 1991-1992 trying to keep the dream alive. I drove all over the west coast trying to find a CFI job.

As you get older you begin to think about your future more as you accumulate responsibilities.

Skyhigh

Can't we all just get along!!!!!!!!!!!!

Not as long as there are sad bags that can't accept that not everyone lives off ramen noodles in this industry. SkyHigh has proven one thing to me. It is entirely possible for a person with no personality, no backbone, and no consideration for the motives of other people can trashtalk this industry.

Sky, the person that needs your kind of advise may need to breathe into a bag for a while. You assume a lot of things, and I am starting to believe you where kicked out for other reasons than the ones you post.
Just because others can afford not to live off what the airlines pay nowadays, I am a bad person, living off a trust fund? I am laughing my rear end off about that one bud. You guys are in denial. You got rearended by a industry that doesn't give a rats tail about individuals like yourself. Are you trying to insult me, or are you just not getting your little brain around the fact that there are people who know this market well enough, adjust to it, and get what they want out of it?
You will never ever see such people complain and cry. :rolleyes:
I'll leave this forum section be, I though it would be entertaining to watch you guys struggle to find the real reasons for your misery. I agree, slowly but surely, this industry "has failed you". Just like the Marines would have, or anything else that asked you for more than the hot air you are blowing around. Afterall, you are the one that made a choice, and years later has to tell everyone how good it was for him.
Yeah Right! A ER Doctor& ex airline pilot, has no better things to do with his life than to waste it on aviation trolling around trying to make people feel miserable. Pathetic.
[Don't forget to send me off flying as a CFI and "report back to you on how it was..."] Look at my Avatar, closely. The day I report to a total and entire looser, I'll pull this trigger.

Okay I stopped reading about 2 pages back I can't believe I got that far. Anyway this is not Flight Info so please do not turn it into that. Careercfi you've had some good points and some aggressive tirades. For your sake you may be to involved in this thread. If you cannot respect others and try and respectfully disagree then take a break or something. Ever hear the saying “take the high road”???
Failure is in your own mind and ultimately it only matters what you think of yourself, not other forum posters, other pilots, your buddies etc. If your god fearing then I presume it matters what god thinks, but he’d probably look at the kind of person you are not your career choices.

I do believe Sky High has consistently tried to help others (though I haven't read all of his posts:) so lets quit with vitriol.

Let’s not forget that management, our politicians and the companies that get them elected are the most prominent factors in the status of this industry.

Please Please agree to disagree and if you can’t be nice then take a break.

Tailwinds! Unless yer trying to build time and pay…

Yes, you are a bad person if you accept lower wages because you have an alternate income and can live high on the hog regardless of what you are paid.

There are people with families to support and you hurt their wives and children by accepting less than a professional pilot deserves to be paid.

Now I'm not saying one should never take a 1st year sh!t sandwich in pay with an eye toward a decent career progression. But if you don't care what you're paid - and never will -because you're living off a trust fund, or your wife's income, please stop. Go donate your time to Angel Flight or something productive to society if you've got the itch to fly.

And leave the paid flying to those who need to be paid.

The problem I have with that argument is that people with families and bills to pay are by far the majority, and they still choose to bite the bullet and fly at current wages, thus hurting themselves. Most, obviously, with the intent of moving up the ladder, but they are still willing to take the wage knowing it will take some time (years) to move up in pay.

For some, $50k as a second or third year FO isn't a bad wage. Depending on the situation, it may seem like a fortune to some. Where you live is also a big factor. I'll bet a single guy could live like a king in Alabama on $50k!

All relative
 

We all are sharing our own experiences and expectations it is up to the reader to decide what is of value to them.

Some like myself and others here would like to have a career that is suitable to properly support a family to at least a middle class lifestyle. It is important to me to be able to have a satisfying quality of life that includes time at home and to be able to live where I wish.

Others don't seem to care about that stuff and their only aim seems to be to fly a plane. Perhaps they have trust funds or a spouse to support them and that is great. However to me under the current conditions the profession does not qualify as a viable job that is worthy of the sacrifice and risk it takes to get there.

I believe that ten years ago it was possible to achieve my personal goals and dreams with an aviation career. My intention was to use my love of flying to support the life of my dreams. A few will make it to someplace good. Most will not.

Everyone must decide if it is worth it to them, however it is important to hear viewpoints from both sides.

SkyHigh