And leave the paid flying to those who need to be paid........


THATs the most assinine response I have ever heard. Using your stupid and flawed thought process anyone who has a well earning spouse, OR has money from some other venture.... or for what ever reason at their age in life can afford to take a flying job at first year pay shouldn't. It would seem you are advocating that only those who are cash strapped should fly for a living in the FLAWED hope they will only accept top wages.... and we KNOW that isnt true. In your perfect world nobody looking to get hired would accept jobs flying for companies who have less than desirable wages to force the companies to raise the bar. The flaw in your perfect plan is that SENIORITY is king in this business... lets use the example of CAL. Their first year pay and benefits SUCK.... however guys are willing to put up with that year to get the follow on reward ( for what it is ). Its no different for doctors who have **** pay for a few years... or any other profession...... few professions allow newcomers to step into the big bucks.... and yes the big flaw in the seniority system is that guys experience may get them hired after being furloughed but they go back to the bottom pay wise. Hell first year pay when I was a 2nd LT in the military SUCKED... but then in the follow on years the pay was much better.... are we seeing a trend here.....

Doctors have AMPLE opportunities out there while there are only a FEW aviation jobs to choose from. Doctors can choose their specialty, and can open a practice if they want as well. It's not like being a doctor. I know, insurance fights, yada yada. I'm not saying it's perfect, but in other professions, you atleast have a few more options to be successful.

Robthree, really no offense, but don't come up with some excuse to make those who REFUSE jobs because they don't want to contribute to the downfall of this industry like myself responsible for the kids that take these jobs.
As I said and posted previously in here - I am for a national pilots guild that secures good incomes. The fact of the matter is that I cannot change that Ricky down the road from me has glazed over eyes because he is offered a job flying a jet for 17000/ year.

I will write this in bold, so nobody can misunderstand it:

Pilots are highly trained individuals. If it was for me to decide there would be a minimum of $50,000 yearly salary to get into the cockpit of any airplane that seats more than 15 passengers and is engaged transporting such passengers for hire.

I have no (absolutely none - whatsoever) objections to good pay that enables people to do a job that is not easy to do. I can after a long time in this industry say that I have never and will never contribute to the misery by accepting a job below acceptable standards to enable people to feed their families. By doing so, I would contribute to the problem.
It is not people like me that drove the value of pilots to "a dime a dozen".
It was nobody else than the people who started salivating when they imagined themselves in a RJ, flying passengers that pay less than 30% of what they should have to pay, around a country. They took the job. They accepted the 20K and now they blame the industry? Thats like moving into a trash dumpster and then frequently looking out the top complaining about the stink. Next, are you saying people who are financially better off and fly for the pure fun of it should be prohibited from flying? Do we get brand marked once we have a certain net value? You guys are kidding right? Socialism?

In this country, Pilots grow on trees. They do not (today) care, nor will they (tomorrow) make sound financial decisions as to if they can or ever want to afford to have a family. Don't blame American, United, or Skywest for hiring the cheapest pilots they can. There is no bottom in that barrel. There are, and in the future will be more than today, people who will fly that lousy 737 for free if that is what it takes to get themselves hired.

Here's an idea, you can do both. Even at a regional I had enough free time to make money outside of aviation. It wasn't even work since I enjoy it. Don't wait for the world to give anything to you, go take it. Turn off the tv on the overnight and DO SOMETHING.

Dime a dozen
 

"In this country, Pilots grow on trees. They do not (today) care, nor will they (tomorrow) make sound financial decisions as to if they can or ever want to afford to have a family. Don't blame American, United, or Skywest for hiring the cheapest pilots they can. There is no bottom in that barrel. There are, and in the future will be more than today, people who will fly that lousy 737 for free if that is what it takes to get themselves hired. ---Careercfi "

I couldn't agree more. There is no winning at the game of race to the bottom.

I want a life.

Skyhigh

What I don't understand is why people call any given pilot who wants to leave the airlines a failure. Many people here are seasoned veterans of the airlines. I wouldn't call myself a veteran quite yet but my goal was to be an airline pilot. I have multiple type ratings, plenty of experience and time. I achieved my goal. That's a success in my mind. Maybe its my adhd, but there's a couple of other things I think I could be successful in and might enjoy.

Anyone can call me anything they like-meanwhile, i'm laughing all the way to the bank.


Careercfi-Just curious, How many 121 hours have YOU logged?

Failure
 

The industry changed the pilots didn't. From the days when I took my first lesson till now I have watched as the industry has gone from a great place to be to an embarrassment. Minimums have gone steadily up at the majors while pay has gone consistently down.

Truly good jobs have been replaced by poor ones. And the slide keep going. We did not fail. I was there for nearly 20 years. I did my part, did well in college, suffered through years of CFI and Part 135 jobs. I never had an accident and I have letters of recommendation from most every employer.

The job changed right out from under us. What started out as a worthy investment has descended into martyrdom. We have been let down. The profession is a humiliation and not worth the investment anymore. It use to be a brilliant place that rewarded pilots with an upper middle class life style.

Why go through the sacrifise of paying for a college education, flight school and a decade or more of CFI, Regional and LCC experience to finally reach a major only to make less than a delivery man? I didn't do that. I did my part. The career failed me.

SkyHigh

"I didn't do that. I did my part. The career failed me."

You have preached at APC in the past that you'd not consider a job at Southwest Airlines worthy of your time for your own personal reasons. You were a 121 current and qualified 757 F/O back in 1996 and made the personal choice to leave the industry. You can call that "the career failed me" to your hearts content, but I think your standards are too high when you'd suggest the career isn't worth commuting to a SWA base. There are guys here in Spokane that got hired at SWA post 1996 and commute to OAK.

Did the career fail them too since their personal lives are so awful?

Each person's expectations and goals with the career are different. Knocking the whole career based on one persons expectations and goals will give a pretty narrowminded view of reality. For every Skyhigh at APC, there is a DE who is pretty content with the career. And I say that not as a UPS Capt, but as one who'd have been content at SWA, AWE, CAL, or World. Since 1996, all these airlines have hired pilots....

Never did, never will log any 121 hours.
Not my cup of tea. Not the kind of people I want to be around everyday.
Not the kind of flying I enjoy. Ever since the market changed, no longer a dream job that offers a return on investment.