So wait a minute... you're saying you'd never work for an airline either, but then you're here bashing 121 pilots who're looking to or have the left the airlines?
????????????

Nope, not bashing anyone. Nobody actually has to ask Barry Schiff to have him spill the wisdom that this industry and the opportunities it has to offer have been destroyed. They just have been destroyed by people being allowed to enter this career on crooked dreams, with sometimes very crooked goals. If 60% of all doctors would start treating patients for free, tomorrow, all the others would go out of business. They don't, they watch out for each other. Same goes for lawyers, chiropractors (6 figure jobs).

As long as the airline industry is allowed to hire 250 hour pilots, the demands cannot go up. In essence the airlines and operators have found a cheap way of playing people's dreams in a very sick way. It's those that fall for it - who cause the problem.:(

It's a profession. treat it as such. Slap people who sell out cheap. They are the enemy. Not the industry. It's really just us, who can take the calculator out and figure if we can afford to do this. If we can't, or don't want to, we need to move on and get over it.

Swa
 

Sometimes I wonder how you could have this perspective. Then I put myself into your shoes and it makes sense to me. You must have gotten hired at UPS in the early 1990's. The industry has changed massively since then. You can't possibly understand how 1600 hours of 757 FO time is about as worthless as 1600 hours of CRJ FO time. How could someone in your position have any empathy or understanding of our plight? To you the profession must seem easy. You just apply, show up for the interview and start work. You can't possibly know how hard it really is for those who are on the outside and looking in.

None of my friends who were dumped by National Airlines have done much better in aviation. Most are laid off again or could not find another suitable job after National. A few have gone on to better things however their jobs are in jeopardy as well. I did not have the contacts to transition to another equivalent or better job. If you recall at the time the industry was in chaos and it was difficult for anyone to find another job.

I take it as a complement that you would even think I could secure an interview at SWA let along get a job there. I have never met or flown with a SWA captain. I only know one guy who has ever gotten a job with them. Aside from the fact that the job totally does not meet the needs of my family and of myself it is so far outside of what I have the connections to pull off that the entire prospect is laughable to me.

Had I thought that SWA was really an option then perhaps I would have taken a closer look, but why waste yourself on something that is so far out of reach? So to address your statement I was laid off and even it I had wanted to secure another position as a pilot I would have been forced to nearly abandon my pregnant wife and two small sons (at the time) to commute to a low wage job at a regional. Then hope to make the jump to a LCC, when the opportunity presented itself, just to get in line for the next furlough or lay off.

You can't possibly understand what I and others here are concerned about. Its not your fault. How could you understand? You have enjoyed a fantastic career insulated from many of the hardships. You don't have a overwhelmed wife and kids at home who rely on your help and input. You can't fathom the separation anxiety that comes from constantly leavening your small babies. You have not had to support the needs and expenses of a family life. You can move whenever and where ever you like. When you get home from a trip you could sleep for days if you wanted to.

I am not expecting much but try and put yourself into my shoes.

SkyHigh

Sky - could you explain one thing to me - please?

- So it's all hackadoodle, if you don't have connections you don't land a job?
- 1500 hours of 757 time is worthless?
- Others who are settled in this career (I assume they have their fears too) had it easier than you or anyone else? I know a bunch of pilots that fly, or have flown for majors. Big Iron, too. How come those who made it well had some 3000 hours before even getting on a right seat? Why did they have between 8000 and 10000 before they where offered the upgrade?
- Maybe freight dogs are not affected by the economy as much as the airlines which carry whining and crying passengers who want everything for free?

- How do you explain this:

Nowhere does it say what you will make. Would I drop 60K on training without even knowing if there are jobs? Nope, I dropped 30K with no loans to pay off, am ready to run when I need to be and can select what, and where I want to fly. Yet, these schools attract people.

Minimums:

Let me put it in simple words:

Well, the airline market is collapsing because of the economy. But if you want to work for nothing, come to us, we'll get you there. This is today. If I tell you on a website that I will turn your 10 dollars into 10 million, would you send me ten bucks?
People jump all over it. There won't be a pilot shortage ever again. Unless we make ourselves a bit rare and hard to get. If I wanted my Directors seat back, I dumped so gracefully a few years ago, but refuse to be self confident and sure about my skills, guess what, I would never get it again. Sometimes things are out of reach. Some turn around from it, and I understand that. But some go get a stool to reach higher.

Connections, timing and luck can make all the difference in the world. In todays aviation marketplace for example UPS has 12 to 20,000 applications from qualified pilots. They have 3000 pilots total and out of that if you assume that the average career is 25 to 30 years long that means that unless they grow significantly your odds of getting hired out of that pool are 145 to one. (3000 pilots / 27.5 average career span years equals an average of 110 new hires per year) (16,000 applicants divided by 110 retirements a year and you get odds of 145 to one.)

Who cares about another jet guy anymore? The market is flooded with them. Every 24 year old kid has RJ time on their resume. The only way for HR to discriminate is to pick from employee referred applicants and by creating narrow entry requirements for everyone else. UPS wants transatlantic crossing experience. Most domestic airline pilots do not have that. Other companies set their own restrictions.

I have watched as the better companies have taken great steps to close the gate. Most senior captains at most every airline would not be able to get hired today with the experience that they had back when they were a new hire. It isn't enough by a long shot to meet the minimums. Competition for the better jobs is fierce. A key introduction or internal advocate campaigning on your behalf is essential.

The best alternative is to get a stool and reach for something with better odds, a better return and better future.

Skyhigh

I've enjoyed it guys.

But I really have better things to do. I'm where I want to be and very happy/secure. My choice the second time around has ensured that I will retire wealthy and that the rest of my work years will net me a wonderful income and job satisfaction.

Plus-sleeping in my own bed, and seeing my child everyday at home.

For those who have p.m.'d me and asked for advice and help, that offer stands.



Good luck to all and Gods speed in whatever direction you should choose to go.



JRL M.D.









I request that my APC account be closed--

"How could someone in your position have any empathy or understanding of our plight?"

Whatever. I was furloughed once and was between jobs a few times. Left the career, worked in ATC, got back in. Spotted fish. Blah blah....

The difference is I didn't quit. If you had gone to World in 1996 you'd be an MD11 Capt today making over six figures. I know that job wouldn't suit you, and that's an acceptable personal choice, but to bash the career as unworthy for all when you didn't even try....

I'm not blaming your for quiting in your personal situation. I'm simply blaming you for knocking the career as somehow responsible for where you ended up. You blame the career for making you leave while it was your personal situation that caused you to walk away.

I get that
 

Sure,,, I get that. It was my personal situation. I needed to feed my family. It was my fault. Technically you are right I guess. Had I been a trust fund baby I suppose I could have continued to move my family all over the country taking dead end jobs until I made it someplace. You are right about that.

However, my position is that after so much invested I was still in such hardship and it was because of the shortcomings of the profession. If aviation actually needed pilots and if the profession were more stable and offered better compensation I would not have been in that situation.

I have some contacts at Gemini by the way. If I were to have gone into cargo I suppose that is where I might have ended up. And today I would be a laid off DC-10 FO.

Skyhigh

Best wishes
 

Skyhigh,

I still hope you get that call from Alaska Airlines. At least it will give you the chance to say "Too late, Nanook." Glad you found what you were really looking for. :)

Tom

Thank You Tom
 

Did you know that my youngest son is named Thomas? He is only 2 1/2 but sure gets into a lot of trouble.

Thank you for your kind words. I have found what I was looking for. I am home with my family right where I need to be. I still hope one day to make it to Alaska Airlines even if it were for just a little while.

Your Friend,

Skyhigh