Doom and Gloom
12-18-2010, 06:54 AM
#81
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Construction Jobs
Originally Posted by FLowpayFO
Skyhigh, do you blame Canada too?
I just find it funny how you lurk here and tell everyone to quit aviation. Many of my friends went into the construction business and have been out of work for years now. One in particular was making $92K a year at 19 years old doing land surveying with a union contracted job. That dried up quick, he's now welding making $12 hr at 26 years old. Another friend did similar construction work making $80k a year, he's been on unemployment for nearly 2 years. My cousin is an out of work electrician, I could keep going on...
They also had commutes that were sometimes over 100 miles each way, and had to be at the job sights sometimes as early as 4 AM. But they were home every night, to change clothes.
Aviation is not the only business in the world that has its ups and down's.
And you never answered my question, what is your goal here on this forum?
I just find it funny how you lurk here and tell everyone to quit aviation. Many of my friends went into the construction business and have been out of work for years now. One in particular was making $92K a year at 19 years old doing land surveying with a union contracted job. That dried up quick, he's now welding making $12 hr at 26 years old. Another friend did similar construction work making $80k a year, he's been on unemployment for nearly 2 years. My cousin is an out of work electrician, I could keep going on...
They also had commutes that were sometimes over 100 miles each way, and had to be at the job sights sometimes as early as 4 AM. But they were home every night, to change clothes.
Aviation is not the only business in the world that has its ups and down's.
And you never answered my question, what is your goal here on this forum?
The difference is that your friends in construction have experienced a once in a lifetime economical downturn. Construction has been hit especially hard, however it will come back. Aviation does cycle however pilot wages and working conditions have been ratcheting downwards since the late 1970's.
Aviation has seen its heyday as a profession and now the only way pilots can differentiate themselves in the market is to work for less. When the economy comes back your friends will be back to work again and for far more than what they could have as a pilot.
Skyhigh
12-18-2010, 07:04 AM
#82
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Usmcflyr
USMCFLYR,
I don't know what to say to you anymore. What are you getting out of this anyway? You seem to be on a pro-poverty, pro-company, anti-family platform. You just seem to blindly oppose everything I write for no reason. I am beginning to worry about you.
What do you support anyway? You talk about me not having any "balance".
In addition I was a county firefighter for almost a year. I was a volunteer for several years beyond that. In addition I was an air ambulance pilot and flew for the forest service in wild land fire suppression. While you sleep emergency services stand watch in case you need us. I hope you slept well.
Skyhigh
I don't know what to say to you anymore. What are you getting out of this anyway? You seem to be on a pro-poverty, pro-company, anti-family platform. You just seem to blindly oppose everything I write for no reason. I am beginning to worry about you.
What do you support anyway? You talk about me not having any "balance".
In addition I was a county firefighter for almost a year. I was a volunteer for several years beyond that. In addition I was an air ambulance pilot and flew for the forest service in wild land fire suppression. While you sleep emergency services stand watch in case you need us. I hope you slept well.
Skyhigh
12-18-2010, 07:09 AM
#83
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Aviation
An aviation career is a massive undertaking that requires the price of a starter house just to get trained and educated. People should carefully evaluate where it is that they want to go and if they are on the right path.
If all you want it to martyr yourself to the company then you have found the right place. However if a person wishes to have a family and a life of prosperity then they should be very careful.
Wages are very bad for those starting out and continue to be so for most. 70K as a regional captain sounds like good compensation but not when all the prior costs and lifelong career risks have been considered. The only way the financial aspects of an aviation career can be compensated for is if everyone could commonly expect to make it to a SWA, FedEx or UPS while still in their 20's.
Skyhigh
If all you want it to martyr yourself to the company then you have found the right place. However if a person wishes to have a family and a life of prosperity then they should be very careful.
Wages are very bad for those starting out and continue to be so for most. 70K as a regional captain sounds like good compensation but not when all the prior costs and lifelong career risks have been considered. The only way the financial aspects of an aviation career can be compensated for is if everyone could commonly expect to make it to a SWA, FedEx or UPS while still in their 20's.
Skyhigh
12-18-2010, 08:57 AM
#84
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by SkyHigh
USMCFLYR,
I don't know what to say to you anymore. What are you getting out of this anyway? You seem to be on a pro-poverty, pro-company, anti-family platform. You just seem to blindly oppose everything I write for no reason. I am beginning to worry about you.
I don't know what to say to you anymore. What are you getting out of this anyway? You seem to be on a pro-poverty, pro-company, anti-family platform. You just seem to blindly oppose everything I write for no reason. I am beginning to worry about you.
You can't pull ONE post where to show that I am Pro - anything that you mention or ANTI-family, unless you want to count PRO-military as Pro-company. Matter of fact - it is just an idiotic statement to say someone is PRO-poverty, or ANTI-family. I was the one telling you to help your parents when you were looking to make some tough decisions. Based on those posts it was looking like YOU might have been the one to be ANTI-family; at least you certainly aren't a fan of the expanded family concept. I truly hope that situation as worked out well for you though no matter our differences in opinion on the boards, I hate to see people put into those difficult situations.
What do you support anyway? You talk about me not having any "balance".
I think not. What do I support? Easy - you not insulting an entire professional group. I am now and always have been right smack dab in the middle. If you want to get into the professional aviation business then do your due research and KNOW what you are getting into - the goods and bads. You forget the goods, or don't want to recognize any or why you say that you might get back into the business someday - and only espouse the negatives. You question MY balance? That's rich!
In addition I was a county firefighter for almost a year. I was a volunteer for several years beyond that. In addition I was an air ambulance pilot and flew for the forest service in wild land fire suppression. While you sleep emergency services stand watch in case you need us. I hope you slept well.
You said it yourself - you are a bitter man - and everyone should know what kind of slant from which you give your (sometimes wonderful and right on the money) advice; but you should quit insulting anyone who doesn't agree with your predictions.
USMCFLYR
12-19-2010, 03:57 PM
#85
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
Originally Posted by GlobeTreker
USMCFLYER
Why do you bother posting in this section? You obviously are NOT planning on leaving the career. Do you see it as your duty to protect the illusion of glamor and high pay for this job? Why not blow some smoke up the butts of a bunch of wannabe pilot at jetcareers?
Why do you bother posting in this section? You obviously are NOT planning on leaving the career. Do you see it as your duty to protect the illusion of glamor and high pay for this job? Why not blow some smoke up the butts of a bunch of wannabe pilot at jetcareers?
Find a post of mine where I "blow smoke up the butts...." of anyone and tell them that everything is rosey and rich.
It sounds to me like you don't like someone who doesn't believe in all the doom and gloom and hate it when someone actually has anything good to say about flying at all; just like the so-called "cheerleaders" that you and Sky rant about.
My purpose here is the same as Sky's - and maybe yours. To educate.
No - I don't plan on leaving the career. I just started!
Do you think that the Leaving the Career section is just a place for aviation bashing or do you think that it is a safe forum for insulting other professional pilots?
If you get mad at other points of views, why don't you and Sky start your own website and make sure that one of the conditions for acceptance is that they are just as bitter?
You are welcome to post your point of view here; but don't expect the ultra doom and gloom theatrics (sometimes applied to ALL facets of aviation) or insults to an entire working group to go unchallenged.
USMCFLYR
12-19-2010, 04:54 PM
#86
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Airbus 319/320 Captain
Posts: 880
Some folks just don't like hearing the truth no matter how relevant it is. Skybox has a "one-sided" opinion regarding this field and even though he has some wonderful points, he has no balance. As I have said before, if you all negative on Aviation then you have no balance. Politics should work as well. Plus and minus equal balance. Think about it fellas!
12-19-2010, 06:53 PM
#87
Retired
Joined APC: Feb 2008
Position: whale wrangler
Posts: 3,527
Some get a bit of luck and some run a dry spell and it's just the nature of the beast and not a whole lot can be done about it .
When all is said and done life is what you make of it always has been and always will be .
Cpt.J.F.Jimenez
When all is said and done life is what you make of it always has been and always will be .
Cpt.J.F.Jimenez
12-19-2010, 07:29 PM
#88
Moderator
Joined APC: May 2006
Position: ATP, CFI etc.
Posts: 6,056
Originally Posted by brianb
Some folks just don't like hearing the truth no matter how relevant it is. Skybox has a "one-sided" opinion regarding this field and even though he has some wonderful points, he has no balance. As I have said before, if you all negative on Aviation then you have no balance. Politics should work as well. Plus and minus equal balance. Think about it fellas!
12-21-2010, 10:28 AM
#89
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Position: FAA 'Flight Check'
Posts: 13,837
I think we covered all those points.
You seem to think that access should be restricted.
I (and the rest of APC) don't.
Heck - even our friend Skyhigh posts in OTHER sections of APC and he admits that he has nothing good to say.
Does your logic hold the same there?
Enjoy your UNrestricted posting Globe - and be sure to check out some of the other areas available at APC too - not just the 'Leaving the Career' section. There are lots of good discussions going on about a variety of topics.
USMCFLYR
You seem to think that access should be restricted.
I (and the rest of APC) don't.
Heck - even our friend Skyhigh posts in OTHER sections of APC and he admits that he has nothing good to say.
Does your logic hold the same there?
Enjoy your UNrestricted posting Globe - and be sure to check out some of the other areas available at APC too - not just the 'Leaving the Career' section. There are lots of good discussions going on about a variety of topics.
USMCFLYR
12-21-2010, 01:50 PM
#90
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Position: Airbus 319/320 Captain
Posts: 880
Why do you insist on being you? Go hang out with Sky, both of you are perfect for each other. If the "posts" were strictly adhered to, the "mods" fingers would all fall off by noontime! Lighten up.
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