How to make the decision: time to hang it up
03-21-2011, 11:45 PM
#1
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Joined APC: Aug 2007
Position: North by Midwest
Posts: 383
How to make the decision: time to hang it up
I remember being a little kid and the first time I saw a NorthWest 727, it was on the south maintenance ramp in MSP. With it's beautiful red tail, the giant N with a the compass pointing north; I knew I wanted to fly airplanes. About 20-25 some odd years later after getting my training, joining the industry and seeing what life has to offer for a pilot I have a bad taste in my mouth. I won't say it was all bad, I met allot of great people, experienced things few have and seen sights few get to see. But at the end of the day something feels empty almost as if the lifestyle is one that is unsustainable. Aviation has caused great strain on my life, both personally and financially.
I know now that of which I loved as a child has long since been dead, even back in 1990 things had already changed and with 2000s things really changed, but still I can't help but feel: do I really want out? So I ask all of my fellow pilots who are in the game and those of you who pushed back from the table, how do you make the decision? Worst yet how do you live with it? I am really thinking it may be time to hang it up.
I know now that of which I loved as a child has long since been dead, even back in 1990 things had already changed and with 2000s things really changed, but still I can't help but feel: do I really want out? So I ask all of my fellow pilots who are in the game and those of you who pushed back from the table, how do you make the decision? Worst yet how do you live with it? I am really thinking it may be time to hang it up.
03-22-2011, 06:56 AM
#2
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Addiction
Flywithjohn,
"Addiction can be viewed as a continued involvement with a substance or activity despite the negative consequences associated with it". From Wilkipedia
I quit smoking over 20 years ago but am still occasionally hit with the urge to light up. The sense of loss will never fully go away. The same goes for aviation. It too will most likely be an eternal curse.
The results of quitting though are definitely worth it. My life is much better now. My family is happy and prosperous. My days are spent in the manner of my choosing. However I must admit that I quit smoking completely on my own but I could not quit flying without help.
It is not easy to leave even a crummy job for the unknown. As a family we were miserable when I was a pilot. Pay was low and we were stuck in a city that we hated far away from friends, family and the life that we loved. I had no other obvious skills or profession. Flying was the only thing that I focussed on since high school. To quit without a solid plan was not easy.
A motivation technique that I found to be helpful was to study the lives of those who were twenty years further down the road than I. Most were burned out, broke and alienated from a life of friends and family. I knew that I was on the same path and wanted desperately to get off of it.
My personal limitation was the age of 35. I figured that if I had not made it to a major airline by 35 I was going to pull the plug. Beyond that age starting over seemed to be too hard and the odds of making it to my dream fading rapidly. I was 37 by the time fate finally stepped in and pushed me out. However I still have not quit in the classical sense. I am perpetually searching for jobs and have done so since I was laid off. Yet nothing has presented itself that comes even close to matching the income and situation that is needed to support a family.
Many years have passed since then though I still think about flying everyday and most likely always will. There are no easy answers. Stay and watch your personal life go up in flames or quit to face the unknown.
Skyhigh
"Addiction can be viewed as a continued involvement with a substance or activity despite the negative consequences associated with it". From Wilkipedia
I quit smoking over 20 years ago but am still occasionally hit with the urge to light up. The sense of loss will never fully go away. The same goes for aviation. It too will most likely be an eternal curse.
The results of quitting though are definitely worth it. My life is much better now. My family is happy and prosperous. My days are spent in the manner of my choosing. However I must admit that I quit smoking completely on my own but I could not quit flying without help.
It is not easy to leave even a crummy job for the unknown. As a family we were miserable when I was a pilot. Pay was low and we were stuck in a city that we hated far away from friends, family and the life that we loved. I had no other obvious skills or profession. Flying was the only thing that I focussed on since high school. To quit without a solid plan was not easy.
A motivation technique that I found to be helpful was to study the lives of those who were twenty years further down the road than I. Most were burned out, broke and alienated from a life of friends and family. I knew that I was on the same path and wanted desperately to get off of it.
My personal limitation was the age of 35. I figured that if I had not made it to a major airline by 35 I was going to pull the plug. Beyond that age starting over seemed to be too hard and the odds of making it to my dream fading rapidly. I was 37 by the time fate finally stepped in and pushed me out. However I still have not quit in the classical sense. I am perpetually searching for jobs and have done so since I was laid off. Yet nothing has presented itself that comes even close to matching the income and situation that is needed to support a family.
Many years have passed since then though I still think about flying everyday and most likely always will. There are no easy answers. Stay and watch your personal life go up in flames or quit to face the unknown.
Skyhigh
03-22-2011, 07:57 AM
#3
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2007
Position: Fairly local
Posts: 1,458
Tough choice man. I've thought about it too, but over the last few years I've realized that piloting is part of what I AM rather than just something I DO. Addiction? Maybe, but even if/after you quit, you'll always still be an addict still wanting it...
03-22-2011, 11:33 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2006
Posts: 585
But once you close the cockpit door, all that ground BS leaves. You get paid to sit in line and watch airplanes takeoff and land for hours. Then, it is your turn, you add power, get up around 100 MPH, pull back on the steering wheel, and the most amazing thing happens, most of the time. A week goes by and you've spent 20-30 hours in the air, time that can not be deducted from someone's lifespan. Sure, you've also spent 20-90 hours on the ground away from home sitting in airports, again, watching airplanes land and takeoff.
If it's about the money, you'll never be happy. No career is safe. No job is safe. Unless you own the company, you can be laid off at any time. If you own the company, you're always out chasing a thousand bosses, would-be customers.
Some haven't saved enough to survive the furloughs and downturns. Some buy expensive kids, wives, husbands, and so on. They are intolerant of the years of poverty it takes to get ahead in the industry, forgetting that doctors, lawyers, and many other occupations do the same. They also are focused on themselves, wanting instant gratification for themselves, so what if the other is miserable. It's probably why the divorce rate is so high.
If I haven't made it to a major by 65, then I know that path was not for me. I've two years left before my goal of making a million by age 35. Only a few times I've regretting having to get up and go to work, and that had nothing to do with airlines.
Go with your head held high, you tried and decided it was not for you. Nothing is wrong with that. Go to the next job and work it, enjoy it. It's the journey, not the destination.
If it's about the money, you'll never be happy. No career is safe. No job is safe. Unless you own the company, you can be laid off at any time. If you own the company, you're always out chasing a thousand bosses, would-be customers.
Some haven't saved enough to survive the furloughs and downturns. Some buy expensive kids, wives, husbands, and so on. They are intolerant of the years of poverty it takes to get ahead in the industry, forgetting that doctors, lawyers, and many other occupations do the same. They also are focused on themselves, wanting instant gratification for themselves, so what if the other is miserable. It's probably why the divorce rate is so high.
If I haven't made it to a major by 65, then I know that path was not for me. I've two years left before my goal of making a million by age 35. Only a few times I've regretting having to get up and go to work, and that had nothing to do with airlines.
Go with your head held high, you tried and decided it was not for you. Nothing is wrong with that. Go to the next job and work it, enjoy it. It's the journey, not the destination.
03-22-2011, 12:21 PM
#5
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
The important stuff
Originally Posted by jedinein
But once you close the cockpit door, all that ground BS leaves. You get paid to sit in line and watch airplanes takeoff and land for hours. Then, it is your turn, you add power, get up around 100 MPH, pull back on the steering wheel, and the most amazing thing happens, most of the time. A week goes by and you've spent 20-30 hours in the air, time that can not be deducted from someone's lifespan. Sure, you've also spent 20-90 hours on the ground away from home sitting in airports, again, watching airplanes land and takeoff.
If it's about the money, you'll never be happy. No career is safe. No job is safe. Unless you own the company, you can be laid off at any time. If you own the company, you're always out chasing a thousand bosses, would-be customers.
Some haven't saved enough to survive the furloughs and downturns. Some buy expensive kids, wives, husbands, and so on. They are intolerant of the years of poverty it takes to get ahead in the industry, forgetting that doctors, lawyers, and many other occupations do the same. They also are focused on themselves, wanting instant gratification for themselves, so what if the other is miserable. It's probably why the divorce rate is so high.
If I haven't made it to a major by 65, then I know that path was not for me. I've two years left before my goal of making a million by age 35. Only a few times I've regretting having to get up and go to work, and that had nothing to do with airlines.
Go with your head held high, you tried and decided it was not for you. Nothing is wrong with that. Go to the next job and work it, enjoy it. It's the journey, not the destination.
If it's about the money, you'll never be happy. No career is safe. No job is safe. Unless you own the company, you can be laid off at any time. If you own the company, you're always out chasing a thousand bosses, would-be customers.
Some haven't saved enough to survive the furloughs and downturns. Some buy expensive kids, wives, husbands, and so on. They are intolerant of the years of poverty it takes to get ahead in the industry, forgetting that doctors, lawyers, and many other occupations do the same. They also are focused on themselves, wanting instant gratification for themselves, so what if the other is miserable. It's probably why the divorce rate is so high.
If I haven't made it to a major by 65, then I know that path was not for me. I've two years left before my goal of making a million by age 35. Only a few times I've regretting having to get up and go to work, and that had nothing to do with airlines.
Go with your head held high, you tried and decided it was not for you. Nothing is wrong with that. Go to the next job and work it, enjoy it. It's the journey, not the destination.
To most people the important stuff is not the take offs and landings but the family that they have left at home. Flying is just the job that is supposed to provide for all that stuff. Increasingly however aviation is not compatible with the demands of a full family life.
High performing single people are able to make flying work but there is a price to be paid for letting aviation consume ones whole life.
Skyhigh
03-25-2011, 03:50 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: 744 CA
Posts: 4,772
If you fly for the money you will probably never be rich in Sky's mind. If you fly only as a way to make a living you will not survive this industry. Everyone is different and everyone deals with it in different ways. If you choose to leave the profession you will find your way, most everyone does. Sky makes SOME valid points, others I disagree with and they are not worth discussing with him because he is dead set on his ideas and that is okay, just realize what he says is his opinion and HIS experience. YMMV. Oh.. and sky... those postal jobs you always talk about... USPS has cut 105,000 workers in the past 2 years.... oh and did you see.. they have announced 7500 more yesterday. No industry is safe, no company is safe. There ARE opportunities outside of aviation... there ARE opportunities inside aviation as well.
03-25-2011, 07:15 AM
#7
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
Usps
Originally Posted by HercDriver130
If you fly for the money you will probably never be rich in Sky's mind. If you fly only as a way to make a living you will not survive this industry. Everyone is different and everyone deals with it in different ways. If you choose to leave the profession you will find your way, most everyone does. Sky makes SOME valid points, others I disagree with and they are not worth discussing with him because he is dead set on his ideas and that is okay, just realize what he says is his opinion and HIS experience. YMMV. Oh.. and sky... those postal jobs you always talk about... USPS has cut 105,000 workers in the past 2 years.... oh and did you see.. they have announced 7500 more yesterday. No industry is safe, no company is safe. There ARE opportunities outside of aviation... there ARE opportunities inside aviation as well.
I am sure that you realize that the mailman is a baseline example of what can be accomplished without a college degree or flight training; good wages, benefits and retirement.
Pilots can fool themselves into thinking that they are doing well as a 52K per year regional captain when really they are earning far less than a mailman. After four years of college and the cost of flight training a regional pilot should be making far more than they do.
I agree that no job is safe however I am certain that delivering the mail is a much safer career than being a pilot. When times get tuff the corporate jet is the first thing to go the mail however still gets delivered. In addition in the rare occasion when a mailman gets laid off they will not have 150K in student loans to pay off either.
From a stability and financial standpoint being a mailman is a better career.
Skyhigh
03-25-2011, 08:30 AM
#9
Self Employed.
Joined APC: May 2005
Position: Corporate Pilot
Posts: 7,119
I can not agree.
Originally Posted by Learflyer
Sky. I can bet the odds of finding a good flying job is better than the odds of the post office hiring you right now.
Hows about 120K to fly a 737 in the middle east? Then what? A big part of my point is that it is not all that easy to determine what a good job as a plot is anymore. 60K at a regional is not that great when you consider the cost that it takes to get there and the lack of benefits. To me a life overseas is not much of a life.
The mailman has more control over his life, enjoys career stability and has a real retirement to look forward to.
A mailman is not the only example we can use. The military is hiring.
Skyhigh
03-25-2011, 08:42 AM
#10
New Hire
Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 5
Getting out...
I am going thru the same discussion with myself right now. A little of my story...I got hired at a major airline at the age of 30 and all was going to plan. Then like a lot of people; the industry happened and I was out of a job. Luckily I found a new job even before I was furloughed and now I talk to airplanes instead of fly them. I go to work every day in a dark room and stare at a scope. Do you know how bad it sucks to work 5 sometimes 6 days a week every week. Some days I like it and think this is the greatest job ever, but most I am truly unhappy. I thought if I could only go to the same place and be home every night that would be awesome. Imagine how much I could see my family I thought. Well it's not true my wife works a real job and I see her less now then I did when I was flying! Well I am living proof the grass is not always greener. I have a job that comes with good pay, good benefits, and supposedly good job security. So I have started to get myself back in the game. I am not going to quit cold turkey and jump back into flying even if that may be the best way back in. I am going to slowly start flying again and attempt to get back into it and see where life takes me. I have started applying to jobs, but like most the regionals don't work due to the pay. I do have recall rights so that is always an option. Of course who knows when that will happen or maybe after I get out of training in my current job I'll like it a lot more and want to stay. After all that droning on I guess what I am saying is it's a tough decision and even after almost 3 years of being out I am still not sure what path I want to take. Good luck!
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