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[Breeze] Airways

Old 01-07-2022, 08:58 PM
  #2351  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
Keep in mind sub fleets are expensive. Delta did everything they could to eliminate subfleets with covid.
JetBlue has a bunch of subfleets. A321CEOs have both mint and all coach configs -- the mint have 2 ACTs, different galleys, lav layouts, etc. The A321NEOs have some mint, some all coach, will have 13 LRs, and will have 13 XLRs.

That's 4 A321NEO family subfleets, 2 A321CEO subfleets, and currently 3ish A320 subfleets (depending on what you differences you consider a subfleet). But amongst all those subfleets, there is still a lot of commonality. Through all that discussion about B6, the biggest parallel to Breeze's potential LR plans is the way B6 does London. There's a subset of JFK based pilots who are ETOPS qualified, so there's a subset of both planes and pilots dedicated to that piece of the operation. That subfleet is currently only 3 planes large, and will only be 13LR+13XLR large by the end of 2025 or 2026 split between two bases. Still small, not unlike 20 breeze LRs would be.

I just don't think it's really a big deal. An A220 with an ACT and different galley/seating layout isn't a huge complexity. From a mx standpoint, it's the same, minus ETOPS requirements. From a pilot standpoint, same thing, plus ETOPS and augmentation requirements. From an equipment swap standpoint, it's no different than B6 occassionally putting the LR on domestic routes, or even DL putting a 764 on a domestic route these days that was normally a 739 in pre-pandemic times. It's also like breeze using both E190s, E195s, and A220s in their operation. The former have different missions and utilization needs than the 220s...it's almost like 2 different business models within one airline. Yes more complex, but not overly so. Definitely has its disadvantages, but can be manageable. B6 is a relatively small airline with 3 types, one of which contains many subfleets, and they seem to do ok with it. Can't imagine an ACT and galleys would cause much of an issue at Breeze as far as subfleets go...not near as large an issue as a completely different fleet, which they seem fine with.

I donít think Neeleman has ever used subfleets.
TAP has a couple different 321 configurations. Not sure, but it's not that difficult. He's definitely used multiple fleets within small airlines, which is a lot more complex than subfleets.
Is B6 serving meals in the back?
Yeah, scroll about 2/3 - 3/4 of the way down https://thepointsguy.com/news/onboar...don-inaugural/
They are also years behind on their international timeline. Covid is a part of it but they are finding it a very expensive operation.
They deferred their LRs when covid hit...and launched like 4 or 5 months later than originally planned, in the middle a pandemic and when there were travel bans in place between the two places. But still launched. I wouldn't say they are years behind. More like months. Half of the Europe plans are predicated on the A321XLR, which won't be available until late 23 or early 24...that timeline hasn't changed and is up to airbus, not jetblue. The LR went from 5 or 6 deliveries last year to 3, and 5 or 6 this year to 3, and the rest next year. Frankly, given covid and transatlantic travel right now...that was probably a good move. All that said, London is doing a whole lot better than they had planned given the circumstances. B6's CFO (until he bailed last year for eBay) was British Airway's SVP of Atlantic Joint Business and the B6 CEO was a 19 year British Airways exec. So...I don't think the expense of transatlantic is much of a surprise to them. I'm quite sure that of all possible management teams out there, B6's knew the costs associated with launching London. Similarly, Neeleman has started/owned/run airlines in the US, Canada, South America, and Europe. I don't think he's just winging this idea. It's based on his industry knowledge, experience, and discussions with airbus about possibilities with this A220. I can't imagine he'd float these ideas in a public interview without at least some level of commitment from airbus that it's possible. But, I guess we will see how it works out for him.
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Old 01-08-2022, 05:09 AM
  #2352  
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Those same subfleets are uniform in pilot requirements. A new A220 fleet is not.
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Old 01-08-2022, 08:25 AM
  #2353  
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Isnít Neeleman just planning to adjust seating, etc with quick change cabin adjustments? Hereís an article about it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/simplef...nge-cabin/amp/
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Old 01-08-2022, 09:04 AM
  #2354  
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One of the newest airlines in the US is tackling the pilot shortage by paying them more and hiring from Australia (msn.com)

New pay chart in article, if you think it still low that is your problem according to management.

"We've been operating for seven months and we simply can't be as competitive as pilots would like us to be right now," Owens said. "Pilots just need to have a little bit of patience, see the forest through the trees, and see Breeze for what it can be."
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Old 01-08-2022, 11:50 AM
  #2355  
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Ahhh so they are doing the whole , we are just starting we are a little guy routine. Get use to it, if it is anything like jetblue, they will wave that flag at least 15 years.

Then just when that line starts to wear thing, he will start a new airline with another crop of year zero starry eyed people.
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Old 01-08-2022, 12:19 PM
  #2356  
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Originally Posted by David Puddy View Post
Isnít Neeleman just planning to adjust seating, etc with quick change cabin adjustments? Hereís an article about it:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/simplef...nge-cabin/amp/
Lots of aircraft over the years have been advertised with quick change options. Never actually seems to happen.
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Old 01-08-2022, 01:29 PM
  #2357  
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Originally Posted by Texasbound View Post
One of the newest airlines in the US is tackling the pilot shortage by paying them more and hiring from Australia (msn.com)

New pay chart in article, if you think it still low that is your problem according to management.
it is Low. Tell me what airline in the United States pays FOís different rates for year one based off the aircraft they fly?

Ejet FOís took a 6k pay cut in overall compensation factoring in the new rates over the lifetime of our 2022 pay chart. We lost COLA increases we previously had and we went from a 12 yr scale to a 7 yr scale. You only get a pay increase with these new and improved rates if you upgrade or go to the A220.
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Old 01-08-2022, 01:49 PM
  #2358  
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Originally Posted by sailingfun View Post
The Breeze aircraft seat 126 total. The Delta aircraft 130. Breeze has a lot more first class seats but tighter pitch in coach. You are going to need to get that seat count way down for 4000 mile flights. Keep in mind you will need lots of Galley space and ovens. Flights of that length typically serve two meals. The A220 will also need bigger waste and water tanks for that type of service. It canít carry a LD3 container which is a real issue for cargo.
You really donít know what your talking about.

Deltaís seat pitch is 30-32 in in Econ and Breeze is at 31 in for basic economy. Breezeís planes have 3 restrooms as standard for 126 seats so the capacity is already there for water etc.

The number of carriers who use containers on A32x is minuscule compared to the number who actually operate the plane. The ULD-3 container the A32x uses is also not the same container that a widebody would use, so they would only be used in the A32x as they would be highly inefficient to use in a widebody.

secondly the whole container discussion is moot as Breeze is a Non-Cargo carrier. We donít accept or fly ANY cargo in our planes.

Breeze already has a configuration for lie flat seats. That configuration is even less seats than the current 126, but not that many.
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Old 01-08-2022, 04:59 PM
  #2359  
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Originally Posted by Tpinks View Post
You really donít know what your talking about.

Deltaís seat pitch is 30-32 in in Econ and Breeze is at 31 in for basic economy. Breezeís planes have 3 restrooms as standard for 126 seats so the capacity is already there for water etc.

The number of carriers who use containers on A32x is minuscule compared to the number who actually operate the plane. The ULD-3 container the A32x uses is also not the same container that a widebody would use, so they would only be used in the A32x as they would be highly inefficient to use in a widebody.

secondly the whole container discussion is moot as Breeze is a Non-Cargo carrier. We donít accept or fly ANY cargo in our planes.

Breeze already has a configuration for lie flat seats. That configuration is even less seats than the current 126, but not that many.
He really doesnít! Aircraft manufacturers modify planes all the time to fit their customers needs. Where thereís a will thereís a way.
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Old 01-08-2022, 07:12 PM
  #2360  
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Originally Posted by Texasbound View Post
One of the newest airlines in the US is tackling the pilot shortage by paying them more and hiring from Australia (msn.com)

New pay chart in article, if you think it still low that is your problem according to management.
I didnít read the article, but doesn't that quote admit to it being low?
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