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Old 08-24-2022, 01:16 PM
  #3331  
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Originally Posted by Swapapotamoose View Post
This times 1000%. Management is only playing nice now because a union threatens their profit margins.
and by profit margins, it threatens their IPO earnings.
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Old 08-24-2022, 01:17 PM
  #3332  
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Originally Posted by Learjet FO View Post
Looking for a Breeze pilot to DM me. I live in Norfolk and can't move or commute for family reasons. I have 91/135 options, but I prefer airline resources and regularity. I've been called up in the reserves and still have 7 months before I can interview, so I'm weighing the options. 4500 hrs, Ex Lear-35, Air Wisconsin, CE560 contract.
I would not come here right now for ORF. David has actively said he wants the ORF planes in south Florida and for ORF to be a summer seasonal operation. ORF has been reduced to almost nothing going into this winter. One pairing a day for 1 aircraft there…
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Old 08-24-2022, 02:40 PM
  #3333  
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Originally Posted by Learjet FO View Post
Looking for a Breeze pilot to DM me. I live in Norfolk and can't move or commute for family reasons. I have 91/135 options, but I prefer airline resources and regularity. I've been called up in the reserves and still have 7 months before I can interview, so I'm weighing the options. 4500 hrs, Ex Lear-35, Air Wisconsin, CE560 contract.
Airline resources and regularity. So not Breeze.
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Old 08-24-2022, 04:49 PM
  #3334  
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I've wasted enough time and not interested in going back and forth with you guys for eternity. I'm not going to go through and quote everything but:


Everyone just started getting an extra 2k a month on May 15. That's not a raise? And before you say it's only for commuting, you can cash it out if you don't want to use it for tax free items so it's as good (or better) than any other money you're paid. And for the guy that said we haven't had a raise since Dec, there was also one for everyone in March.

If you can go to an AAWO and make 246K a year, what are you still doing here? Oh that's right, it only lasts for a year or two and then goes back down.

I wasn't comparing Delta to Mesa, I was pointing out that they represent a large number of airlines on many levels, all with varying qualities of contracts... Mesa/Air Wisconsin, FedEx/ATI, Delta/Spirit etc.


At this point it really doesn't matter. What's done is done. Give it a couple years and see if it was worth it.
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Old 08-24-2022, 05:54 PM
  #3335  
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Originally Posted by Learjet FO View Post
Looking for a Breeze pilot to DM me. I live in Norfolk and can't move or commute for family reasons. I have 91/135 options, but I prefer airline resources and regularity. I've been called up in the reserves and still have 7 months before I can interview, so I'm weighing the options. 4500 hrs, Ex Lear-35, Air Wisconsin, CE560 contract.
Reevaluate in 6 months and see if ORF is still a base. Like Tpinks said, Neeleman stated a seasonal TDY bounce between ORF and South Florida for those pilots.
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Old 08-25-2022, 12:28 AM
  #3336  
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Originally Posted by AF2AL View Post
Someone is definitely out of touch but it isn't me.

What exactly do you think that ALPA is going to do that isn't being done already? Do you think they're going to show up and automatically get us the new UPS rates?
Breeze has given raises at least every quarter if not more often. Work rules are improving all the time and leadership has shown that they're trying to communicate and work with the pilots in order to make it a place where people want to work.

I know that everyone with little experience thinks that ALPA is going to be some saving grace but that's not the way it works. The biggest factors when it comes to work rules and compensation, are the profitability of the company and the willingness of management to work with the pilots.

Take a look at all the companies represented by ALPA and you'll see everything from the best compensation/work rules (Delta, FedEx etc.) all the way down to the bottom of the barrel places to work (Swift, Mesa, Commutair, Western Global, etc.) and everything in between. If ALPA is the determining factor, why aren't Spirit and Frontier pilots making the same as Delta? Why has Mesa been a terrible place to work when they've had ALPA since the late 1980's?

If management was unwilling to work with us and playing hardball, that would be completely different. Then I'd agree that a union is neccessary, but that's not even close to the way things are.
Oh my sweet summer child, you’re naive to think your management group gave any of those pay raises being seriously nice.

They got their a$$es handed to them with retention last year and are learning the hard way. Now they want to undermine your bargaining position by hiring folks who don’t even qualify for an ATP yet?

Shall we forget the time they completely ghosted the BPC for months?

Or when they pulled the profit sharing stunt?

The divvy take backsies fiasco?

The outsourcing attempt to Australia?

You’d think such a highly touted mgmt group would really have it together from the start…

How much are they paying you to post this???
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Old 08-25-2022, 02:37 AM
  #3337  
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Originally Posted by fly4fun14 View Post
I'll cavet this by saying I don't work at Breeze but I was looking at them as a potential employer.

I don't agree with you but I don't disagree with you either. Looking at it objectively Breeze is arguably doing better than everyone thinks.

DN is using the same strategy he used with Azul in Brazil, with the primary difference being Breeze aircraft do not have the TVs but they do have entertainment via your own device like American and United. The other difference from Azul is the premium heavy cabins. From a strategic standpoint what Breeze is doing should be sound.

It also seems like the operational snafu that happened in May/June time frame has fixed itself since they had no cancellations in July and as far as I can tell didn't need Omni to do any flights. You could also argue that DN recognized the problems and fixed it by hiring a new president and new "chief of people".

From a new pilot perspective if you live in Richmond, Norfolk, New Orleans, Charleston, Hartford then really Breeze is your only option if you don't want to commute or drive multiple hours to make it to work.

For the Provo, Tampa, Providence bases they are obviously competing with Delta, JetBlue, Spirit when it comes to driving to work. If you look at FO Reserve guarantee, Breeze pilots make more or the same (including the $2000/month commuting stipend...without it they aren't competitive) as those airlines for the first 3 years. One would hope a TA would be out by then.

Additionally it's the only airline that has the mix of 1 to 4 day trips on the a220, home every night and charter ops. Depending on what you like, that can help with quality of life.

That being said the 401K matching is not close and they no longer have profit sharing.

It comes to seniority obviously Breeze would be the choice.

All that to say I could certainly see them sticking around, and I could certainly understand why somebody would or would not choose to go to Breeze, but to flat out say they are going to fail or that there is no reason to choose them isn't accurate.
Breeze and Delta pay the same the first 3 years? Not up to date with the Breeze contract, but that seems unlikely even with that boost you mentioned. Delta has new hires on the 765 which is widebody pay. We also have captains in multiple bases and fleets with less than a year seniority….
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Old 08-25-2022, 07:36 AM
  #3338  
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Anyone willing to PM me and discuss QOL at PVU? Mil/121 guy thinking about trying to join Breeze.
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Old 08-25-2022, 02:48 PM
  #3339  
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Originally Posted by AF2AL View Post
Someone is definitely out of touch but it isn't me.

What exactly do you think that ALPA is going to do that isn't being done already? Do you think they're going to show up and automatically get us the new UPS rates?
Breeze has given raises at least every quarter if not more often. Work rules are improving all the time and leadership has shown that they're trying to communicate and work with the pilots in order to make it a place where people want to work.

I know that everyone with little experience thinks that ALPA is going to be some saving grace but that's not the way it works. The biggest factors when it comes to work rules and compensation, are the profitability of the company and the willingness of management to work with the pilots.

Take a look at all the companies represented by ALPA and you'll see everything from the best compensation/work rules (Delta, FedEx etc.) all the way down to the bottom of the barrel places to work (Swift, Mesa, Commutair, Western Global, etc.) and everything in between. If ALPA is the determining factor, why aren't Spirit and Frontier pilots making the same as Delta? Why has Mesa been a terrible place to work when they've had ALPA since the late 1980's?

If management was unwilling to work with us and playing hardball, that would be completely different. Then I'd agree that a union is neccessary, but that's not even close to the way things are.
Outsider here. Just wanted to chime in and say there is one person who is out of touch, and a drag on the industry, and it’s you. My guess is you’re either management, new to the 121 world (or came from the military or Skywest), and just don’t have the SA to know what is good for the pilot group. Or, if you’re management, you’re clearly just trying to spew the anti-union rhetoric.

There’s a reason “potential unionization” is always in SEC filings as a potential negative financial occurrence for a company. Fortunately breezyboiz learned from B6 pilots’ mistake of taking 3 votes and 15 years to get a union on property. With the band of blue guys (guys like you at B6 who tried to keep unions off property) being successful, it kept B6 pilots down for a long time, and if B6 were still under the direct relationship (read: Directed Relationship), they’d probably still be making substandard wages and getting walked all over by the company like breeze pilots do.

the union is what you make of it. You need good guys in leadership, and a strong united pilot group who can see the bigger picture (obviously, that means fewer guys like you). Mesa ALPA sucks because their union leadership sucks, their senior pilot group (ie lifers) are too dumb or out of touch to play the long game and send it back (probably why they are mesa lifers), and the middle/bottom of the seniority list just wants to be gone in <12 months, so it’s easy to convince them to get a quick money grab instead of sending it back. As a career airline, ie, not a regional, breeze pilots shouldn’t fall into those categories. But, there’s a method to Breeze talent acquisition madness…hence why you’re there. Fortunately for breeze pilots (and probably for the company as well, some of you guys just don’t realize it yet), it didn’t quite work out as well as they thought. Yet another thing Neeleman has miscalculated in his Moxie-dream. As he said once in an interview about B6, “if a union ever gets on property here, it’s my fault.” He got what he deserved with the cheap, out of touch schmucks he hired to run the place.
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Old 08-26-2022, 06:14 AM
  #3340  
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Originally Posted by AF2AL View Post

What exactly do you think that ALPA is going to do that isn't being done already? Do you think they're going to show up and automatically get us the new UPS rates?
Breeze has given raises at least every quarter if not more often. Work rules are improving all the time and leadership has shown that they're trying to communicate and work with the pilots in order to make it a place where people want to work.

I know that everyone with little experience thinks that ALPA is going to be some saving grace but that's not the way it works. The biggest factors when it comes to work rules and compensation, are the profitability of the company and the willingness of management to work with the pilots.

Take a look at all the companies represented by ALPA and you'll see everything from the best compensation/work rules (Delta, FedEx etc.) all the way down to the bottom of the barrel places to work (Swift, Mesa, Commutair, Western Global, etc.) and everything in between. If ALPA is the determining factor, why aren't Spirit and Frontier pilots making the same as Delta? Why has Mesa been a terrible place to work when they've had ALPA since the late 1980's?

If management was unwilling to work with us and playing hardball, that would be completely different. Then I'd agree that a union is neccessary, but that's not even close to the way things are.
This sounds like the preamble to the FordHarrison Universal Union Busting Handbook.

I award you zero points due to your lack of originality and creativity. Sounds like Breeze management has a lot to learn before they advance in union busting level. This is 1990s bush league BS.
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