Thank you for your apology. I really appreciate that. I also respect your point of view.

Aaaaand I'm even more late to the party.

Plane Coffee

Apparently you guys are not racist enough.

And sexist enough!!!!!

You were not unreasonably confused.

This is the dumbest thread in the history of the internet. It’s making us all retarded.

[QUOTE=jcountry;2656987]This is so simple.

Just don’t get involved.

Going back and trying to talk sense to crazy will not result in any good outcome, ever.

Just stay out of it-and do only your job.


Problem with your theory is, the Captain is in charge of EVERYTHING that happens on the jet. So, if in his expert opinion, his intervention was needed, then that’s his call to make. “Stay in your lane” type comments may work for some work groups, but not when it’s your show(the Captain’s). Perhaps you’re not in our industry, and do not understand the legal responsibility the Captain has, so your ignorance is understandable.

[QUOTE=Guppydriver95;2659797]You are confusing operational control with emergency authority.

When the pax cause a big problem in flight, that can become an emergency. Clearly, the capt can and should deal with that.

At the gate, not only does the capt have no business back there, he/she technically doesn’t have operational control. Most airlines let it slide, but when the plane is at the gate and the door is open, the capt is not in charge.

The company/gate/dispatch still have authority at that point.

Stay out of it. Captain’s authority has nothing to do with these gate situations-any more than it has to do with some fight in a terminal restroom.

Don’t come crying to me when you are the next social media incident everyone is laughing at on late night shows.

Stay the **** out of the back. There be dragons

[QUOTE=jcountry;2660095]This is correct. If the door is open, the CA's auth-or-itay is technically limited to programing the box and loading fuel. That's a technicality which is often disregarded, but if things get real ugly they will hold you to the letter of the law.

[QUOTE=jcountry;2660095]
Demonstrably false. The FOM is clear. From the time the Captain signs the release, until he releases the crew after block in, it’s his/her show. This was codified years ago, shortly after the merger. You’re free to disagree, but you would be wrong.

[QUOTE=Guppydriver95;2660269]Go ahead and break up that fight in the terminal restroom. (Which is exactly the same as getting involved in a gateway altercation.)

Skycop a situation outside of the cockpit and come back here to tell us how it turned out.

Can’t wait to see how long you got suspended.

This is not hard stuff. Going back and getting involved in anything is not our job, and constitutes just about the most brain-dead thing any pilot can ever do.

I remember when Delta appointed the CA of a flight to the additional post of “On-time Coordinator”. We asked if that title included authority to give orders to gate agents & ground personnel, and they said: “Well....not really.” :rolleyes:

[QUOTE=jcountry;2660634]
Reading comprehension obviously not your strong suit. Read the FOM. It’s black and white. And your ridiculous terminal analogy has nothing to do with anything. We’re talking about something happening ON THE JET. Your lack of understanding really makes no difference in what the Feds and company have both agreed to IN WRITING, but hey, you’re free to believe whatever you choose.

Not sure what language Delta has, but at U, the Captain is the on site leader from the moment he/she arrives at the gate. Have had numerous occasions where this theory is tested. For example: it’s the last flight of the day. We have a handful of pax who will be stuck overnight if we leave without them. Overzealous gate agent says “my boss in zone says to button it up, we need the on time”. I call zone, tell her boss we’ll wait for them. Case closed. There are may other examples, but you don’t have to give them orders per se, you simply don’t release the parking brake until things are done. There are no second guesses from the Chief Pilot, and no paperwork required. Just doing what we get paid for. Not really sure why some on this thread don’t understand this simple concept. Perhaps pre-merger CAL did things differently, but those days are looooong gone.

[QUOTE=Guppydriver95;2660681]Once again, I encourage you to involve yourself back there (or up in the terminal, or wherever.).

Go right ahead. Have a ball!

Take that FOM back there and explain to folks how in command you are. I’m certain they will take it the right way.

Just don’t claim you weren’t warned when you wind up on Tosh looking like a fool.

Being right does not trump being smart. Under no circumstance is it ever smart to get involved with any pax issues. Make your decisions from the cockpit, and rely on people who are trained to deal in person with idiots who are obviously trying to set us up.

[QUOTE=jcountry;2660759]Sir/madam

You’ve definitely jumped the shark. I NEVER said it was something I would want to do. I simply was correcting the uninformed notion that the Captain “has no business” getting involved. I agree that he/she should TRY to direct appropriate ground personel to diffuse the situation while at the gate. We have NO idea what happened prior to the video being taken. That’s the problem. You get a snap shot in time, with incomplete facts, and then spout off about why the Captain was wrong when you obviously have NO IDEA how the chain of command works. But hey, keep in tilting at that windmill, sport.

[QUOTE=Guppydriver95;2660778]You know what can’t ever be taken out of context?

A capt who is not back there, not messing around with any pax, and not getting his picture taken making any gestures.

Problems avoided never need to be solved.

See how that works?

[QUOTE=jcountry;2661003]Glad you’re not in any position to make decisions. Nuff said.

That's the problem. It's why there's almost no way to win by going back there because the video will be edited for "newsworthiness" regardless of what actually transpired.

I don’t disagree with you re: the ideal way to handle these situations. I was simply correcting the uneducated notion that the Captain has no say prior to the door being closed. I get that the general public posts here, but there are many in the industry that post here as well who actually believe this.

Oh I agree, the CA absolutely has a say whether someone stays on the plane or not. But he probably doesn't have a duty or responsibility to roll up his sleeves, head back, and wade in. And phones and social media make it bad idea in almost all cases.

Not trying to pick nits, but the Captain has THE say, not A say as to who stays on the plane. As for “he probably doesn’t have a duty...” that’s where our views diverge. The FOM is black and white. Take care.

This is one of those cases where you may win the battle and lose the war.

Just don’t go back there. It’s stupid as all hell.

I have questions about the decision making capability of any pilot who will go back and get involved personally. It’s so incredibly stupid

Jeebus. Not this again....

Don't you guys have anything better to do?

Yes, he has THE say, no grey area there.

I suppose FOM's might differ.

Even when your company manual requires it?

YGTBSM.....

No manual I have ever seen requires any pilot to go and insert themselves in stupid situations.

You make the decisions, and guess what-the gate agent, or FAs, who whom the hell ever is actually trained to deal with irate idiots will go and deal with them.

If you step back there to do it yourself, you are the idiot-and you will soon be plastered all over social media advertising that fact. Plus, you will get a whole bunch of bad publicity for the airline.... Gee, thanks.

God. Some people are just always searching for something stupid to go ahead and jump into.

Yet here you are......

Yeah....poor girl...it’s so stressful to follow INSTRUCTIONS.....SNOW FLAKE CRY BABY. Just follow instructions.....it’s not too hard. 35000 feet up in a tube going 600 mph.....FOLLOW INSTRUCTIONS. Save the theatrics for the stage or entertainment venue.