Every time I read one of these threads, I have to wonder if folks just do not have the logic and reasoning skills to look at facts and come to some conclusions about why things are the way they are.

The airlines have a lot of experience hiring pilots, and a substantial economic motive to pick the "right" ones -- those who will likely pass training and not cause problems over the long term either as employees or technicians. Regardless of if you think their selection logic makes sense, most of them have very good reasons to interview and hire the people they do.

Don't understand why? The answers to all of that can be found posted many times over among the debris in threads on this very topic over the years here on APC. A couple posts in this thread already hit the nail on the head, regardless of if any of you want to believe the truth of what was posted.

It isn't personal, it is just business.

There isn't some conspiracy to benefit others over you -- life just isn't fair.

The folks who are hiring set the rules of the game, not any of us.

 

And you know as well as I do that those standards aren't applied evenly.

 

At any 141 university they are pretty strictly followed.

 

It’s anecdotal but says a lot. I know of a major airline with Sim training protocols set in place. They ideally pair a new hire military with a Captain switching airplanes, if that’s not available then an upgrading CA, then with a new hire regional pilot, last resort with another military new hire. The regional pilots they really don’t worry about.

Claim what you want about standards in training but by the time civiallian applicants get to the level of Majors, it’s a mute issue except for a few bad apples. Military pilots are smart to, they learn the game. They’re learning curve is much steeper. When it comes to comparing, apples to apples, 121 operational knowledge and experience, regional pilots are more qualified. It’s not a dig at military pilots, they catch up. It’s just the truth.

 

I would agree with that. I would also say the military pilot has probably had more hand-flying experience, has dealt with significantly more emergency and dynamic situations, and has had more opportunity in leadership roles.

An airline that draws from both of those pools is probably doing it right.

 

Most military pilots are brilliant...Most have engineering degrees, good to great gpa’s, and a lot are academy graduates. Plus they served. I’m a 121 guy and I get it..it is what it is. At the same time, explain why a 23 year old that barely made it out of indoc got hired at a major over a lot of captains I fly with that have degrees, haven’t failed checkrides, and have been applying for 10 years. That’s the bigger question. That’s the only time I shake my head, not about the military guys getting hired.

Regardless, keep working on your resume-volunteer, do the best you can at your job, and prep for the interviews and your time will come. At least that’s what I hope for myself.

 

At what point does the 141 university kick someone out of flight training? After X number of failures? Or $x,000 amount of dollars?

 

Probably after they’ve been placed in academic probation... you know, like a university. More to the point is that fact that they do fail students on checkrides, and those will affect their career.

 

3 bad days and AF pilots are pedestrians again. I think that is what Packrat and others were getting at. Doesn’t mean 141 U/civic trained pilots are bad or lesser pilots. I have military friends not getting calls as well! Not a golden ticket either.

If a military pilot needs RJ time to “qualify” for major airlines. Do RJ pilots need to fly ACMI to get heavy jet, oceanic/international experience to be qualified to fly for majors? All pilots have to learn new things when hired. Military pilots aren’t ready for DEC but.learn quickly.

HR picks which pilots to interview, pilots are involved in the interviewing those selected. HR doesn’t really care about flying after the minimums are exceeded, they look at other things. I don’t agree with everything they consider but I’m not HR.

 

Again, I’m not making this a pi$$ing contest, and feel that most airlines hire a good group of pilots. I’m just refuting what Packrat has said, “But, I wouldn't expect non-military types to even begin to comprehend that simple fact.” Yeah, because we ALL have such a hard time with simple facts, and understanding reasons why a military pilot is desirable. Thanks for that insult.
And, “I'm never quite sure with a civilian background candidate. Its expensive to get a guy in class only to find out he can't cut the mustard either in the sim or on IOE.” Really? You don’t know what you’re getting with a UND grad with a 3.8 who went to Envoy, was a Line Check Airman and has 1300 TPIC. Really?? Sure, you might not know with a part 61 trainee who then went to a part 91 corporate job and flew King Airs for a few years, but let’s not use such a broad stroke, shall we?
I have NO idea what algorithms are used. Seems a good mix of pilots gets through overall, with the occasional dud from both sides of the fence.