Mike 734,

Got a chuckle out of your post, in a good way. 500 lbs of fuel on the 747 was enough for me to get the airplane moving from a dead stop to 10 kts.

But, I agree with the points advertised in your post .

Regards,

FF

 

Would it have been less than 500 if you were taxiing on two engines?

 

Even less if he was towed!

 

This happened to me many years ago. I was a DC 9 pilot. MGM to ATL. copilot came and found me and said that we would have to fly back to ATL at 10,000 feet. I asked him why. Answer was ATL was WXAF and A/C holding at all altitudes, all quadrants. I called dispatcher for more gas. Big argument insued. anyway, after a screaming argument, i got the gas. Got to ATL, went to see the chief pilot, told the entire story and asked "Was I wrong?". He answered "Yes you were...you argued when you had already won the argument". I kept that piece of info in mind for the rest of my airline career. Some good advice, I think. Also keeps the blood pressure down.

 

awful artucle. so generic that i could smell its cheapness. what does being quiet have to do with leaving the gate with too little ramp fuel? this was as pathetic as the author!

 

I tend to agree with HMP even though I sense some degree of sarcasim.
I understand the intent of the artical, and it opens a great topic for discussion.
However, who is Hassling who about not having enough fuel? Certainly not the rest of the cockpit crew. I know from personal experience that tension in (within)the cockpit is not going to be about how much fuel is needed to complete the intended trip with the appropriate safety margins.
In some Corporate Operations the two pilot flight Dept. can be the most challenging cockpit environment. Why?, well it is almost like being married. Don't laugh. Imagine every trip, some times many days on the road spent with the very same person 99.5 % of the time. And then imagine that, that person is also your Boss, the "Cheif Pilot". This is the breeding ground for tension in the cockpit. Now imagine broching subjects like pay raises, job performance, etc. There is no place to retreat or step back and cool off when conflicts arise. You just have to get in the cockpit and get the job done.
I could right a book on my many years of experience on this subject. And yes I am usually the "quiet professional" because that is the attitude I must have in order to survive the environment.
My hats off to those who are the "quiet professionals", you make the difference when the heat is on.

later

 

HotMamaPilot, nice cheapshot. I'm sure you have something better to contribute to us (besides that wonderful avatar)!

 

[QUOTE=paidtowait;157416]I tend to agree with HMP even though I sense some degree of sarcasim.
I understand the intent of the artical, and it opens a great topic for discussion.
However, who is Hassling who about not having enough fuel? Certainly not the rest of the cockpit crew. I know from personal experience that tension in (within)the cockpit is not going to be about how much fuel is needed to complete the intended trip with the appropriate safety margins.
In some Corporate Operations the two pilot flight Dept. can be the most challenging cockpit environment. Why?, well it is almost like being married. Don't laugh. Imagine every trip, some times many days on the road spent with the very same person 99.5 % of the time. And then imagine that, that person is also your Boss, the "Cheif Pilot". This is the breeding ground for tension in the cockpit. Now imagine broching subjects like pay raises, job performance, etc. There is no place to retreat or step back and cool off when conflicts arise. You just have to get in the cockpit and get the job done.
I could right a book on my many years of experience on this subject. And yes I am usually the "quiet professional" because that is the attitude I must have in order to survive the environment.
My hats off to those who are the "quiet professionals", you make the difference when the heat is on.

The article was written primarily for UPS pilots, and has as much (if not more) to do with the corporate culture at Brown. All other UPS employee groups are institutionally taught to resent, mis-trust and envy the pilot group. Classic divide and conquer (a union busting technique), but these hillbillies (UPS senior management) still believe you haven't paid your dues unless you started working the sort as a teenager and they HATE to hire outside the inbred system that they all came up through unless they have to; for example anything that requires anything above a GED from Kentucky. Also, they try to set flight crews up to be anything that could be construed as disrespectful to ground support types so they can slap them with charges of whatever -ism they can trump up. It emboldens and reinforces the resentment of flight crews, divides and conquers unity and makes crews think twice about rocking the boat. The author's point in my mind was to make the "screamers" among us count to ten (in Roman numerals) and then kill them with kindness, thereby taking away one of the union busting weapons in management's arsenal, all the while protecting captain's authority and getting the gas we need. I think it's a cheap shot casing on the author not knowing the context and the audience he was writing for.

 

Actually, I thought the main thrust of the article was that you needn't (and shouldn't) go ballistic over disagreement that you have the means to win anyway. Once the dispatcher/scheduler/whatever group realizes you're not going to be pushed into anything you aren't willing to do, you won't have nearly the problems you'd have if they thought you'd negotiate...and arguing IS negotiating. Anybody that's been around long should already know that, but the article did a good job of pointing it out anyway.

 

[Yes I think maybe HMP was attempting some sarcasm and my "tend to agree" was my attempt to open with same. Comedy is rough on forums

However I will apologize for not picking up on the UPS cultural insider aspect.
My response was intended to relate to the "quiet Professional " attitude issue and express what I have experienced as a professional aviator.
I'm am glad that you took the time to outline the political and corp. cultural frustrations the article may really be addressing.

I hope the artical has the intended impact, as it is very well written.