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Old 10-17-2019, 10:05 AM
  #101  
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Originally Posted by Al Czervik View Post
For debt? A large replacement aircraft order at DL/UAL would get them in the ballpark. Americans debt concerns me. We have gone through a huge spending spree though. New HQ/almost all new aircraft. I think we are ahead of the other carriers expenses coming up.


American has more than $34 billion in debt, compared to United's $20 billion, Delta's $17.4 billion
What would happen concerning the CBA if AA declared bankruptcy? Would the pilot group get a concessionary contract handed out by a judge?

Also AA has a steady stream of labor with the flow thru program, so theoretically speaking if they declared BK they would have no trouble filling new hire classes since a lot of those pilots at the WOs are counting on the flow with no other backup plan. So that equates to not a lot of leverage and a possible horrid BK contract. Does this sound like a probable scenario or am I way off base here?
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:05 AM
  #102  
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Originally Posted by Al Czervik View Post
For debt? A large replacement aircraft order at DL/UAL would get them in the ballpark. Americans debt concerns me. We have gone through a huge spending spree though. New HQ/almost all new aircraft. I think we are ahead of the other carriers expenses coming up.


American has more than $34 billion in debt, compared to United's $20 billion, Delta's $17.4 billion
Delta has spent cash on a lot and is extremely profitable, meaning they can continue to put money into aircraft and facilities without being buried under debt. United is in the same boat I believe. American, however, does not generate the same cash flow. They needed to capture the consumer before they bought a brand new fleet. American right now is like the MAX. Stuck in its old ways but putting lipstick on a pig and hoping they get by like that. The CEO needs replaced, but to change directions I think their entire upper management needs a bed direction. I work for a competitor but for the sake of all my friends at AA, I hope they turn things around before it’s too late.
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:29 AM
  #103  
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Here's a great thread on how AA was killing it 4 years ago and a bunch of United pilots wishing they had AA's management team and profitability...

I know AA hadn't much intergrated AA/USAir yet and UAL did in fact get a major mgmt makeover but I think it shows how quick the top dog can go to the bottom and the bottom can rise to the top. All 3 legacies are making between Billions a year at the moment. I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about any legacies going bankrupt in the immediate future.

I'm thinking there may be something to what a lot of guys are saying about the legacies will continue to leap frog one another far into the future.

How pathetic are we?
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Old 10-17-2019, 10:31 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by SaturnV View Post
Here's a great thread on how AA was killing it 4 years ago and a bunch of United pilots wishing they had AA's management team and profitability...

I know AA hadn't much intergrated AA/USAir yet and UAL did in fact get a major mgmt makeover but I think it shows how quick the top dog can go to the bottom and the bottom can rise to the top. All 3 legacies are making between Billions a year at the moment. I wouldn't waste too much time worrying about any legacies going bankrupt in the immediate future.

I'm thinking there may be something to what a lot of guys are saying about the legacies will continue to leap frog one another far into the future.

How pathetic are we?


Agreed. None of the big airlines are going anywhere anytime soon.
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Old 10-18-2019, 01:02 PM
  #105  
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From the peanut gallery...

These posts, and the debates, are the most interesting and useful conversations on the forum. As someone hoping for a phone call, these conversations never get old. Thanks all for the varied perspectives.
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Old 10-19-2019, 04:53 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by watch View Post
From the peanut gallery...

These posts, and the debates, are the most interesting and useful conversations on the forum. As someone hoping for a phone call, these conversations never get old. Thanks all for the varied perspectives.
Cast a wide net....go with the first job that makes you more competitive for the next opportunity. Someday you'll end with an airline job and it will no longer make sense to leave for another. At that point, help the pilots achieve the best pay and QOL possible, and enjoy the ride at your new favorite airline.
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Old 10-19-2019, 09:59 PM
  #107  
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Originally Posted by Al Czervik View Post
For debt? A large replacement aircraft order at DL/UAL would get them in the ballpark. Americans debt concerns me. We have gone through a huge spending spree though. New HQ/almost all new aircraft. I think we are ahead of the other carriers expenses coming up.


American has more than $34 billion in debt, compared to United's $20 billion, Delta's $17.4 billion

Just to fix a typo:

Delta does not have $17.4B debt, it is currently $10.1B. Also, $1.9B in cash. Cashflow has been about $8B a year.

AA got ahead of their aircraft replacement cycle, hence the debt. DL has 84 scheduled aircraft deliveries in 2019, much are paid in cash. With their strong cash flow, they will be able to continue taking new year over year aircraft without significantly raising their debt.

Last edited by saturn; 10-19-2019 at 10:11 PM.
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Old 10-20-2019, 01:12 PM
  #108  
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So I enjoy the discussion in the "which airline should I choose" threads, but I'm not sure I can read them anymore. Maybe I've missed it, but does the OP ever respond with where he/she chose to go? It's like watching the entire season of the Bachelor without seeing who got the final rose. I guess what I'm saying is, who got the final rose? American or Delta. I can't handle these cliffhangers.

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I know that no one will believe me now, but I don't watch the Bachelor.
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Old 10-20-2019, 05:56 PM
  #109  
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Originally Posted by Westen View Post
So I enjoy the discussion in the "which airline should I choose" threads, but I'm not sure I can read them anymore. Maybe I've missed it, but does the OP ever respond with where he/she chose to go? It's like watching the entire season of the Bachelor without seeing who got the final rose. I guess what I'm saying is, who got the final rose? American or Delta. I can't handle these cliffhangers.

P.S.
I know that no one will believe me now, but I don't watch the Bachelor.
Fear not, Westen! I have not started training yet, but barring any unforeseen circumstances, the final rose is going to American. I appreciate all of the great advice I have received on this thread, and I never expected so many responses. I especially appreciated the advice to consult my wife before making a decision! Who would have thought??!!

In the end, the opportunity to live near family, in domicile, less than 30 minutes from the airport, combined with the mandatory retirements at American, is too good of an opportunity to overlook.

But keep the back-and-forth coming so the next guy has even more to consider!
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Old 10-20-2019, 06:19 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by averageathlete View Post
the final rose is going to American.
Welcome. It will be an amazing career progression.
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