That's probably more than there should have been.

 

Perhaps. But once bitten, twice shy. Why get sued?(again).

 

I agree that the LCC's are here to stay but I don't think that decent pilot pay necessarily equals bankruptcy. IMHO, the biggest reason why the majors have had difficulty is the complete lack of innovation or creativity. I truly believe that when the CEO's of the entrenched majors wake up in the morning, their first thought is not, "how are we going to make some more money today?", but rather "what are we going to do about those pilots/FA's/mechanics...etc." Look at India, the fastest developing market in the world today. Have any of the U.S. majors gone in there in any great way? Have they done anything to develop the market? There is a huge Indian population in the U.S.. Sure, they have the odd flight and you can bet that when the private Indian carriers start to come to the states in any numbers, the majors will jump on the band wagon and proceed to destroy the yields that could have been theirs in the first place.

You're right that the majors will be continually fighting the upstarts/LCC's etc.. As long as there is a void in the market place, be it capacity, quality or creativity, there will be someone there to fill it. As far as pilot compensation, if the market demands it, the pay will rise at the newer carriers over time. I realize that this is little consolation to someone in their last 5 or 10 years who has had their pay and pension savaged by incompetent fools (union and management).

You may be right if the unions overreach before the carriers are ready to pay the big bucks, then it will start the cycle all over again. If so, then management will only have themselves to blame as the cycle was started by their unending greed, first in overreaching after 9/11 (because they could) and then by their obscene bonuses and payouts that we are seeing now.

 

UAL went on a chick spree back in the late 80's thru mid 90's.. it then went back to 1 in 10 which is more of an industry standard from what I've been told.

 

Lets be clear on this. United continued this practice of hiring abnormally high numbers of woman and minorities right up until they quit hiring in 2001. To be fair, interns and kids with mom or dad working there also got special treatment. That left the white male pilot on his own. The white male pilot had to have many thousands of hours more flying time and PIC before he could even think about an interview. That is a fact and it is undisputable if you look only at the facts.

 

"Taking it back???!!! "

Give me a break. The same boneheads in the union, GAVE IT UP TO START WITH!!!!!

 

Just out of curiosity, what was the average flight time for males? Not trying to start a fight, just curious.
fbh

 

Not disagreeing with you... they've always (as well as UPS and CAL) been keen to hire a disproportionate number of women, thus the 10:1 that I am being told was their goal (I got this from a friend at UAL). The realities of qualified women vs in men in the job market don't yield a 10:1, certainly not based on my years of flying all over the US and now the world and seeing how many more men there are in the job market.

.. I was just saying that they were even worse for a while in the late 80's thru early 90's when they were picking up women with literally a commercial multi-engine in a market where there were ATP's with Type Ratings looking for work. They've since "calmed" down is all.

 

Did you read my post above? From 1992 until 2001 UAL hired 20% women and minorities. That means 4 out of 5 hired were "white male" pilots. 4 out of 5!!! That is a fact. I was hired with 5000 total, 400 turbine pic as a white male with no intern/legacy connections. My class was 96% wasp males. I know it is convenient to cry about minority hiring, but the vast majority of pilots hired at UAL were white males. These are the undisputable facts.

 

Hey- I am United as well but have been gone for the last 4 years. Military for 2 and built houses for 2- don't believe skyhigh- residential construction is definitely "working for a living", plus a ton of risks. My wife encouraged me to continue but my response was what is the big deal about being home every night if I walk in the door ****ed after managing malcontents all day. And don't forget working at least 6 days a week-if you are conscientous.
Since popular opinion is negative on UAL- do you have any recent good news? Plus, what is being said on Age 65 relative to vacancies/upgrades. Not baiting, interested in company specific implications.
BTW, should be back on the might guppy this summer.
Thanks